Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

If there is another General election in the next 12months, it would depend on what is revealed as the probable consequences of Brexit during that period and the various manifestoes of the parties.

Hopefully, the manifestos and debate would reveal the consequences and results of "freedom" from being ruled by the EU and replaced by rule from London tory HQ.

Personally, I would like to see a coalition government for a fixed period with "free" vote on any severance of relationships with the EU and elected MPs to have the courage of their convictions rather than voting out of consideration of what is or they think is advantageous to their personal and possible political advantage.

Unlikely, but anything would smell cleaner than the present governing cabal.

And if a free vote goes against the negotiated deal the alternative is no deal.

Instead of sniping from the sides , Labour who according to their manifesto support Brexit should try putting forward some sensible suggestions of their own and I don't mean 500 odd amendments some of which are plain stupid.

A cross party committee should be working on Brexit.

It is the details of what is meant by Brexit is the real question.

For the majority of the UK public the benefits of "changes" could have been achieved while still sitting at the table, rather the tipping what is on the table into the rubbish bin and then scavenging for the same.

Re post 8148

''changes''---Of course they would Fred as DC found the EU is oh so accommodating, and he was asking for diddley squat

We been trying that for years Fred and as time runs down to Brexit day I think you'll find it won't be us scavenging for crumbs.

George,

When DC asked for diddley squat, there was no risk of the UK leaving the EU, so why would the EU give him anything? They didn't need to. That was Cameron being exceedingly naive (or two-faced) imho.

Dilbert,

Maybe you've been trying the wrong way. Instead of trying to change the EU, there is more than one way of skinning a cat. You could've changed yourselves, and got what you wanted, without any of the hassle.

Do you mean "go along to get along" hilly?

That doesent sound like change to me, it sounds like appeasement, rolling over, turn the other cheek etc etc.




And there was me thinking you was one of us. How wrong can you get?

When it comes to sides, Max, the only side I'm on is my own side.

I'm neither for nor against Brexit, and I can see valid arguments for both sides. I guess also that the UK generally feels the same way, otherwise the margin of 'victory' would have been far more decisive than the 52/48.

I am, however, bitterly disappointed with Cameron and the Conservatives. When he took office in 2010, it was on the election manifesto promise that he would get net migration down to the tens of thousands a year. If you don't want people to come to your country, you remove the reasons for them wanting to come in the first place. The Conservatives had 6 years to do that before the Brexit vote, and they failed miserably. That would have been the best way to skin a cat.

And then, Cameron had the balls to say that he would go to Brussels and get an improved deal, and, if he didn't get a good deal, he'd back the leave campaign. Like George says, he got diddley squat, so why didn't he stick by his word, and head up the leave campaign? Your 52/48 would have gone to 65/35, and he could have then gone back to the electorate straight away, and increased his majority to deliver a positive Brexit. Instead, he lied and you've ended up with Maggie Dismay who looks set to deliver a post-Brexit Britain which looks remarkably like pre-Brexit Britain (except for an abundance of tuk tuks and cheap Chinese plastic toys).

Seriously, if I were you, I'd be humungously p!ssed off with your government. And if you've ever wondered why I divide my time between Switzerland and the south of France, it's because I can and the UK sucks.

The no border problem in Ireland could be resolved if customs were moved to Scotland, England and Wales and the Isle of Man for all Irish trade coming into the UK....whether this would be acceptable to all is a different matter !......it seems it's a real impasse at the moment....and I'm wondering if this could lead to TM being forced to resign or consider it at least.....(hope not as the last thing we need is another election).....

We should ask Ireland to join with us in leaving.

Sorted.

Reasons not to come to the UK; the opposition - Momentum - will finish the job when settled in to Number 10.

Exclusive: Britain and the EU agree Brexit divorce bill



By Peter Foster, Europe Editor
28 November 2017 • 5:37pm




British and EU negotiators have reached a deal over the so-called ‘Brexit bill’, opening the door to a potential breakthrough in the talks this December, the Telegraph has learned.

Sources on both sides confirmed that an agreement-in-principle has now been reached over the EU’s demand for a €60bn financial settlement ahead of a crucial lunch meeting next Monday between Theresa May and Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission president.

Two sources confirmed that the terms were agreed at a meeting in Brussels late last week after intense back-channel discussions led by Oliver Robbins, the UK’s chief Brexit negotiator.

The Telegraph understands that the final figure, which is deliberately being left open to interpretation, will be between €45bn and €55bn, depending on how each side calculates the output from an agreed methodology.

Although it remains true that ‘nothing is agreed until everything...



More if you pay: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/28/exclusive-britain-eu-agree-brexit-divorce-bill/

They won't get that much if we don't get a decent deal.

Do you think they'll all club together and give us a leaving present .

Be too busy crying over all the money they're going to lose to have time for that.

And we might be the first but we won't be the last to leave.

Bet we don't even get an invite to the xmas party ... but they'll want us to pay for it.

They can stuff it .

Seems more relevant.