This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

Bamoani- I think your 'logic (LOL) is flawed............
Or do you honestly hold the belief that all muslims are guilty of a crime by the sheer fact that they are muslim?
If not, then what exactly is the point you are desperately striving to make?
I don't expect germans to have to apologise for Nazism?
I don't expect americans to apologise for the slave trade/kkk/atom bomb/etc
I don't expect myself to apologise for the actions of the British EMPIRE...
So why would I expect a muslim to have to apologise or justify their outrage constantly re the actions of terrorists who pathetically link thier actions to a particular religion (i.e. islam).
Or are you saying that all muslims are terrorists and that its only a matter of time before the several billion of them decide to blow themselves up and take us with them?

You are a sick puppy.
LOL :-)

slightly off topic.I'm surprised that people think Labour are atrocious re the public services. The tories weren't exactly great they pioneered all this management consultant bullshit. And did the right-wing press ever attack them, no ofcourse not. A lot of people here are letting their views be dictated by the media. The tories were just as keen to align themselves to America and the war on terrorism as Labour.

To me, a government is like a business board. They have a responsibility to get the best deal they can for the country, their representatives or employees. in this regard PPI is a terrible deal I think, since future generations will be paying the loans.But the 20billion for 3g licenses by Brown was a stroke of genius I think. I personally think that the government should increase the corporate tax on north sea oil by a large amount. norway's is 40% higher than ours even with the recent small increase which has made no difference whatsoever. People need oil. We've got it. Companies are piling up to enter the north sea because they're making huge profits. Lets take advantage of this and get the best deal possible. The government has an obligation to do this for Britain.

Tuesday, September 12, 2006

UK - MCB: authentic voice of moderate Islam?
RICHARD LITTLEJOHN doesn't think so and he lets them have it with both barrels.

It's great to see some in the media finally standing up to Muslims.

Read the whole thing.





With exemplary tact and exquisite timing, the leader of Britains Muslims chose the eve of the fifth anniversary of 9/11 to warn that we are facing the threat of two million home-grown Islamic terrorists.

The preposterous, self-aggrandising secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), Muhammad Abdul Bari, predicted an angry backlash against what he perceives as widespread Islamophobia in this country.

To be honest, I did wonder whether it was worth even dignifying this garbage with a reaction, especially when it comes from a man who appears to wear a ginger wig with a grey beard. But someones got to do it.

Bari and his sidekicks are regularly wheeled out as the authentic voice of moderate Islam.

Their victimhood shtick is treated as gospel by broadcasters and they are taken seriously by government ministers and senior police officers.

They never miss an opportunity to advance their own agenda. It always the same old song. They utterly condemn terrorism, you understand, but unless we give them exactly what they want, they cant be held responsible for the actions of the more excitable members of their community.

Criticise them and you are damned as an Islamophobe. When I described the MCB as a self-appointed bunch of chancers a few weeks ago, Baris ridiculous Mr Bean-lookalike press officer Inayat Bunglawala wrote accusing me of being a bigot.

Yet nothing in that column could remotely be construed as an attack on the Muslim religion, any more than taking the mickey out of trendy vicars is an assault on Christianity.

Far from being a bigot, I judge the MCB on exactly the same terms as any other bunch of spivs and opportunists. They are the ones hiding behind religion for political ends. I certainly dont need any lessons in bigotry from someone like Bari, who invites as an honoured guest to his East London mosque a radical cleric who describes Jews as monkeys and pigs.

Perhaps while the Muslim Council is accusing others of bigotry it would like to share with us its enlightened views on homosexuality and arranged marriages.

Islamophobia is just another of those catch-all, smear-the-messenger fantasies dreamed up to close down debate and stifle free speech.

When you examine closely Baris latest outburst, it is nothing short of monstrous. What he is saying is that every Muslim in this country is a potential terrorist.

If anything is guaranteed to increase suspicion of Muslims it is incendiary statements like that.

The anniversary of the attacks on America should be an occasion for sober reflection and remembrance. But the MCB has never met an atrocity it didnt try to exploit. Their tactic is always the same.

After their perfunctory condemnation of terrorism, theres always the caveat about British foreign policy in the Middle East and the assertion that the real victims are not those who have actually been blown to smithereens but Muslims themselves.

While they could never condone what has happened, we are invited to understand the anger and alienation which cause young men to turn themselves into human bombs.

The fact is that this jihad started long before 9/11, years before Iraq and Afghanistan. The first attack on the World Trade Centre was in 1993.

And I still fail to understand how the mass murder of thousands of people, among them many Muslims, could inspire anyone to become radicalised. Youd expect it to have precisely the opposite effect.

Young British Muslims are being poisoned by fanatical elements within their own faith by the kind of maniac Muhammad Abdul Bari thinks is a suitable person to preach at his mosque.

There is undoubtedly alienation and anger out there. And not just among young Muslims. Poverty, discrimination and unemployment is not the exclusive preserve of any one religion or racial background.

Obviously just an opinion: But Very Funny


Richard Littlejohn: C**t


29 May 2005


Richard Littlejohn is a c**t.

Actually, no. We take that back. Richard Littlejohn is a C**T. A loathsome, nauseating, uppercase C**T. And if you think this is ill-conceived, infantile ranting, you should at least be happy that we're not being paid 800,000 a year to make it up. Furthermore, if you disagree, and think he is anything less than a C**T, you are wrong, and probably Nick Griffin. If you think however, that he is so *obviously* a C**T that it really doesn't need spelling out, you may have a point. But this week he is in the news, so we felt obliged.

Littlejohn is in the news because he is about to move back from the Sun to the Daily Mail. And, like it or not, when Britain's best-paid and most well-known columnist changes desks, it's news. Actually there isn't a week goes by when we don't get the urge to attempt to put into words how much Richard Littlejohn makes us despair at the depths to which humanity can sink, but usually we don't. We know that despairing at Littlejohn is like waving a fist at the wind. It is wholly pointless. Littlejohn is a force of nature at its cruellest, an abhorrent act of a misanthropic, incomprehensible god.

He is not dissimilar to child abuse. Any human being with even the tiniest shard of humanity understands that he is wrong and should be eradicated, but he exists, and he always will. He is a virulent cancer which attacks the soul of human society and threatens to destroy all that is benign. Weak cells fall prey to his malignancy, taking on his sick, destructive hue. Mirroring Nazi strategies in 1930s Germany, Littlejohn gives the fearful something on which to hang their fears. He provides the desperate with someone to blame.

Littlejohn's opinions are not so much knee-jerk, as epically epileptic. Every single week he goose-steps all over the same old targets like some Pavlovian viper, frothing at the bile-twisted mouth about asylum seekers and homosexuals, single parents and the French, foreigners in general and Guardian readers, peaceniks, welfare spongers and hand-wringing, bleeding heart, homosexual Liberals. His column for Tuesday for example, began, 'If ever there was a case for bringing back the workhouse....' He isn't joking. That same column ends, 'The welfare state was a good idea in principle but it has ended up subsidising the terminally selfish, stupid and lazy... As someone once said: we are all going to hell in a handcart.'

We despair. Littlejohn *is* Satan. Here's another of our favourite quotes from the time of the genocide in Rwanda: 'Does anyone really give a monkey's about what happens in Rwanda? If the Mbongo tribe wants to wipe out the Mbingo tribe then as far as I am concerned that is entirely a matter for them.' Satan.

What is really frightening about Littlejohn is that he is exactly witless enough, charmless enough, and has exactly the right combination of prejudices and lowest common denominator political ideals to make a hugely successful politician. We know that he yearns for the limelight - his main reason for leaving the Sun seems to have been that Murdoch reneged on their agreement to keep him on the telly three times a week for the rest of his life - and he's just now moving into the right age bracket to be trusted by youth-fearing Conservatives. Just think, within a couple of years, Littlejohn could be a Norman Tebbit for thehappy slapper generation. You're shaking your head. You're thinking, 'No, he's too stupid, too populist.' We hope so.

This week Paul Dacre, editor of the Daily Mail, said: 'By turns witty, scabrous, wise, always penetrating but never dull, Richard takes no prisoners with his outspoken views and comment. Whether you come from the Left or the Right, he is required reading. I am absolutely delighted that he will be returning to his spiritual home later this year.'

BNP leader Nick Griffin has described Littlejohn as his favourite writer.

The Holy Scripture of Islam is the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Koran. When the Prophet Muhammad spoke of the people of the scriptures, the books, he was referring to the Jews (The Old Testament) and the Christians (The Old Testament and the New Testament). The Koran Chapter Sura 9:29-30 states clearly, Make War on the Christians and the Jews...Do battle with them! Kill those who join other Gods with Allah wherever ye shall find them, and lay wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert to Islam then let them go their way. (Koran Sura 9:5) For this you shall be rewarded with eternal paradise in Heaven with Allah, crystal clear streams, 72 virgins, wine without side effects, and the Garden of Eden forever. (Koran Sura 56). The Koran clearly and expressly commands all of the 1.3 billion Muslim people to engage in Holy War, Jihad, to conquer the world for Islam, for Allah. (Everyman, The Koran, Translated from the Arabic by J.M. Rodwell, J.M. Dent, Orion Publishing Group, London, 1994).

Radical Muslims not worthy of the religion


By ASLAM ABDULLAH

Special to the Review-Journal

Advertisement

The leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Hamza al-Muhajer, recently issued a decree to its supporters: Kill at least one American in the next two weeks "using a sniper rifle, explosive or whatever the battle may require."

Well, Abu Hamza al-Muhajer, I am an American too. Count me as the one of those you have asked your supporters to kill.

I am not alone, there are thousands of Muslims with me in Las Vegas, and many more millions in America, who are proud Americans and who are ready to face your challenge. You hide in your caves and behind the faces of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. You don't show your faces and you have no guts to face Muslims. You thrive on the misery of thousands of Muslim youth and children who are victims of despotism, poverty and ignorance.

During the past two decades, you have brought nothing but shame and disaster to your religion and your world.

You said you "invite you not to drop your weapons, and don't let your souls or your enemies rest until each one of you kills at least one American within a period that does not exceed 15 days with a sniper's gunshot or incendiary devices or Molotov cocktail or a suicide car bomb -- whatever the battle may require." I invite you to surrender, to seek forgiveness from God almighty for the senseless killing you and your supporters are involved in and repent for everything you have done.

You say that the word of God is the highest. Yes, it is. But you are not worthy of it. You have abandoned God and you have started worshipping your own satanic egos that rejoice at the killing of innocent people. You don't represent Muslims or, for that matter, any decent human being who believes in the sanctity of life. Many among us American Muslims have differences with our administration on domestic and foreign issues, just like many other Americans do. But the plurality of opinions does not mean that we deprive ourselves of the civility that God demands from us. America is our home and will always be our home. Its interests are ours, and its people are ours. When you talk of killing of Americans, you first have to kill 6 million or so Muslims who will stand for every American's right to live and enjoy the life as commanded by God.

By growing a beard, shouting some religious slogans and misquoting and misusing some verses of the divine scriptures, you cannot incite Muslims to do things that are contrary to our religion. Yes, you even fail to understand the basic Islamic principles of life and living. Islam demands peace in all aspects of life, Islam demands respect for life. Islam demands justice.

What you are doing in Iraq, Afghanistan, India or other parts of the world is anti-human and anti-divine. You are an enemy of Islam as much as you are an enemy of America. You must understand that God who entrusted you with life is the same God who spelled his spirit in every human being regardless of his or her religion or ethnicity or nationality or status. You are violating him.

We feel totally disgusted with your action and we condemn you without any reservation. Don't come to our mosques to preach this hatred. Don't visit our Islamic centers to spill the blood of innocents. Don't think that just because we share the same religion, we would show some sympathy to you. You are not of us. You don't belong to the religion whose followers are trying to live a peaceful life for themselves and others serving the divine according to their understanding. In our understanding of faith, you appear as anti-divine and anti-human. We reject you now as we rejected you yesterday.

There is nothing common between you and us.

We stand for life, you want to destroy it.

We accept the divine scheme of diversity in the world and you want to impose conformity.

We respect every human being simply because he or she is a creation of the divine, and you hate people based on their religion and ethnicity.

We support freedom and liberty and justice, and you promote bigotry, murder and strangulation.

You will never be able to find a sympathetic voice amidst us. Our differences with others will never lead us to do things that are fundamentally wrong in our faith, i. e. taking the lives of innocent people and killing others because they are different.

So on Sept. 11, when you will be hiding in your caves, we will be out in the streets paying tribute to those who you killed because you failed to see the beauty of life. We will condemn you once again the same way we have been doing ever since 9/11 because we are Muslim Americans.


Aslam Abdullah is director of the Islamic Soceity of Nevada.

The Army Top Brass didnt think it was legal?

Where did u get that nugget of information from?

BARWONI...have you ever looked into the evidence of 911?...i suggest you go to this site first and make a thorough study of it and then come back to me..
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk

eh barwoni...look what the true americans are saying ...look at the photos
http://www.loosechange911.com/

I've had a look. It is a lot less than convincing.
The evidence revolves around 6 things.
1) USA had planned for faked terrorist atrocities in the sixties to create public support for an invasion of Cuba, among other things.
2) USA had highlighted the idea of planes being flown into the twin towers as a possible terrorist target, and had discussed at length how to proceed in such an eventuality.
3) Many senior politicians changed their travel plans for September to avoid flying
4) The third tower fell even though it was not hit
5) There were an unusual level of shorting activity on air related stocks in the run up to 911
6) Eyewitnesses saw explosions after the planes collided and before the towers collapsed.
I think this is a fair and impartial summary.
1) These plans were dismissed out of hand and those proposing them were sacked. They were never carried out. I see no reason to believe that the same plans would be dusted off and used 40 years later, and no evidence is presented to suggest this.
2) All nations discuss possible terrorist targets, how to try and secure them and what to do in the event of a security breach. COBRA has standing orders that planes flown into certain airspace above London will be shot down if they do not respond to requests to change course. This is a standing order, regardless of plane type, previous communication with it or security status. This would not mean the UK government are planning to make it happen!!
Similarly, The BBC had a wonderful "game show" that invited members of the public to "run the country" during a time of crisis. One of the situations they were faced with was a simultaneous attack on the London underground, and other transport links. This does not make the BBC complicit in the atrocities of 7/7.
3) All this really indicates is that the USA knew of an imminent terrorist threat to aircraft, nothing more. This should not suprise anyone.
4) The NYFD made the decision that as the building was evacuated and they were stretched beyond their ability to cope, they would allow the building to burn itself out, in the full knowledge that it would collapse, but was probably structurally unsafe anyway. The fire was caused by burning debris and burning aviation fuel from the other towers.
5) The USA had several times upped its security status on air traffic, in the run up to 911. That alone would make the shares a sale rather than a buy, as less people flew and costs increased. Added to this, I am told though I have no evidence myself, that fuel costs rose dramatically around that time, again squeezing margins. If the financial sector were aware of an imminent attack of this type, they would hardly have been at work on the day it happened and in the building targetted!!
6) The architect who designed the towers explained this one very simply. The towers were designed to withstand a jet crashing into them, and they did as designed. What they could not cope with was the intense heat from the aviation fuel. The supports buckled and gave way. This led to a vertical collapse. This is exactly how demolition engineers demolish tall structures within themselves, by deliberately weakening the frame.
The explosions heard could come from anything likely to be within the buildings, though it is more likely to be the sound of the steel frame giving way.
The lesson learned, BTW, was one of how to improve the fire retardent in place around the frame.

IMHO, there is nothing in there new, or that cannot be explained a bit more rationally than by saying the USA wished to kill thousands of its own civillians in order to start a war.

Alan

BARWONI - Just vhecked out your web recomendation at http://www.nineeleven.co.uk.
You cant seriously believe that. If you read such drivel and then base your opinions on it and think its fact. you would seriously go down in my estimation.

Although i agree there are a number of holes in the 9/11 report and contradictory statements. The page seems to lead into a conspiracy theory. It is easy with hindsite to pick holes in any report and provide evidence to the contrary. This is still going on for the space landings.
Although I have read the site and will keep an open mind until i have had the time to reread it, it seems another in a long line of people with to much time on thier hands and access to a web page.
They lead with a photo ( center left) with an arrow say what is this? Debris, over pressure, secondary explosion to name but a few. We, i think are suposed to draw a more sinister conclusion.
I will get back to you and I will study this some more.

I wonder why Little Lord Fauntleroy is making a speech in Australia to-day condemning American treatment of captives held in Guantanamo Bay.

Whose skin is he trying to save, or has he just seen the error of his ways.

I must admit when the rest of the world looks at this type of American democracy it is easy to see why they reject it.

Also, of interest, why America and Blair are struggling to get NATOs nations troops to serve in Afghanistan, now that the Americans have stirred up a mass of the Afghans against them by their shock and awe tactics.

I think another American Brainstormer.

Hey stop taking my name in vain marky boy, it was that sick puppy maestro.............aka davidblack/bhg and many ither aliases to many to post here..

barwoni....you are a stupid deluded fool,unable to discriminate from fact and fiction...if you had any children which i doubt i wonder if you'd be different if they were on the frontline in Iraq doing Blairs filthy work

No need for soldiers for much longer in Iraq, they are doing a first rate job of exterminating each other. Quiet you sick ignorant fool maestro!

The Real 2006
'Iraq Body Count'

Iraqi civilians killed this year by Islamic Terrorists
8,615

Iraqi civilians killed collaterally by Americans
60*

Iraq has oil, we want it, so its exterminate no matter whos doing the killing.. And for any Iraqi citizens or terrorists our local council is providing refudge, a free council flat, food coupons, a BMW 318 and a guaranteed job dealing illegal drugs.

New York City has 11 letters
>> >2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.
>> >3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy the Twin Towers

>>in
>> >1993) has 11
>>letters.
>> >4) George W Bush has 11 letters.
>> >This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:
>> >1) New York is the 11th state.
>> >2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number
>>11.
>> >3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11
>> >4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65
>> >passengers. 6+5 = 11
>> >5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9 + 1+ 1

>>=
>> >11
>> >6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911.
>>9 +
>> >1 + 1 = 11
>> >Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:
>> >1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254.
>>2 +
>> >5 + 4 = 11.
>> >2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year. Again 2 + 5 + 4
>>=
>> >11.
>> >3) The Madridbombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3 +
>>1 + 1 + 2 + 4 = 11.
>> >4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers
>>incident.
>> >Now this is where things get totally eerie:
>> >The most recognized symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is the
>> >Eagle. The following verse is taken from the Quran, the Islamic holy
>>book:
>> >"For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle.
>>The
>> >wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah while
>>some
>> >of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for the wrath of
>>the
>> >Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah and there was peace."
>> >That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.
>> >unconvinced about all of this Still ..?! Try this and see how you feel
>> >afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:
>> >Open Microsoft Word and do the following:
>> >1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the
>>flight number of the first plane to
>> >hit one of the Twin Towers.
>> >*
>> >2. Highlight the Q33 NY.
>> >3. Change the font size to 48.
>> >4. Change the actual font to the WINGDINGS
>> >What do you think now?!!
>> >Send this to as many people as you know and in 11 minutes you will get a
>> >nice surprise, if you don't you will get the shock of Your life in 11
>>min.

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB PROTESTERS VENT THEIR ANGER AT GLOBALISTS
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2058900307247947089

Which is it??

2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number
>>11.

1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the
>>flight number of the first plane to
>> >hit one of the Twin Towers.

Someone emailed it to me this morning, haven't tried the microsoft word bit yet.