Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

will10 you are under the mistaken impression that trade is
only a one way street, in that the UK export but they don't buy
any goods or services from the other EU countries...

The fact is the other countries in the EU export more to this
country then we do to them by a huge margin,the trade deficit has risen
to approx 70 BILLION pounds, to around 35 billion exports.

Yes, but that doesent count granny.

will accepts that we buy more than we sell to the €uro's, but that a trade war would effect only us...methinks he's bin reading Cameroon and Osbrowns pamplets.

I suspect a deal is already in the pipeline...the thinking is, I like to hope there are a few forward thinking civil servants.


Whatever way it goes, George is fooked, he will never become prime minister. Which I suppose is a plus.

Nicked from across the road, hat tip to pete.



Live
EU referendum: Tax hike needed to cover £36bn Brexit black hole, says George Osborne

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/18/brexit-would-cost-every-family-4300-a-year-treasury-forecasts/


Osbrown is going to bury the bad news that he cannot close the deficit, onto our Leaving the EU. With an 80 billion plus deficit, and a £70 billion trade deficit, our political class have brought about .They are now going to attempt to say" It's not us guv.

Grannyboy

That is the whole point. In % terms more of our sales are to EU countries than the % of stuff they sell to us.
When we are out of EU any tariffs on our goods going into the EU makes them more expensive. We lose the pricing advantage. If an alternative EU country can make the same product we lose the sale. Our Hondas /Datsuns will be more expensive than their VW and Fiats.
For us we have no alternatives to their BMW. Mercs. If we want them. Slapping a tariff of our own on BMW hurts those that want one in this country.
Of course BMW will lose a sale here but VW will have an advantage in Europe because our cars have a tariff on those going into Europe.
EU has a high value produce that we want. We're trying to sell them a mass market product with a tariff added when they have mass market product (cars) of their own.
We will lose on tariff wars.

Maxk

Yes we buy more from EU than they buy from us. The difference is we need what the EU sell us. The EU takes stuff from us because we are all in the same single market and we can produce it at a competive price.
Outside the EU, we still need what we buy from the EU but our sales to the EU has an added tariff. If another EU country can make a similar product for less than ours, including it's tariff, we lose that sale.
We will not put tariffs on airplanes we buy from Europe. But Europe will put tariffs on any airplanes we sell them

Can some of you outers answer me this, If we want to sell into the EU from outside how do we not abide by their free movement of Labour rules?

will10 your beginning to sound like that French minister Emmanuel Macron .

Stan what do other countries around the world do?

Lets look at the trade deficit again shall we will10...Which
is that the EU sells us more then we sell them to the tune
of approx 70 BILLION to the UK's 35 BILLION.

The Germans won't want to stop selling their vehicles to us,
we are their second largest market after the US.

Same ith the French, with their wime and cheese..I could go on
and on..

And to say we'd after to pay excessive tariffs is a pure lie.

Swedish support for EU membership slumps amid asylum crisis
Just 39 percent of Swedes said being in the EU was a good thing

Support for EU membership among Swedes has slumped amid an ongoing asylum crisis, with a majority saying the 28-member bloc is going in the wrong direction, a poll showed on Monday.
Just 39 percent of Swedes said being in the EU was a good thing compared with 59 percent in autumn last year, the poll for Swedish television showed. Around a fifth of the 1,142 respondents said membership was a bad idea.
"Clearly the asylum crisis ... plays a very big role," said Umea University political scientist Magnus Blomgren.
More than 160,000 asylum seekers arrived in Sweden last year. With 10,000 a week arriving at the peak in November, the country said it could no longer provide shelter for newcomers.
The minority Social Democrat-Green coalition have imposed border checks and tighter rules in a U-turn on decades of generous asylum policies, as popular anger at other EU countries has grown for not doing enough to share the burden.
"Rarely have so many people been displaced in the world as they are right now, but rarely have so few European countries stepped up and been prepared to act," Prime Minister Stefan Lofven told the European Parliament last month.
With the United Kingdom set to vote on whether to remain in the EU in summer, the future of the 28-member bloc has gained increased focus in Sweden, which has also stayed out of the euro area and has been a close partner with Britain in Brussels.
"But I do not see any sign that the kind of criticism of the EU that is expressed in Britain has spilled over to Sweden," Blomgren said.
Just over half told pollsters Sifo that the EU was going in the wrong direction compared with just 8 percent who thought things were improving.
Sifo said the results of the poll could have been affected by a change in methodology, with the most recent poll based on responses to an on-line questionnaire and the previous poll on individual interviews.
(Reporting by S

Well stan why don't you ask the US or the Chinese and
quite a lot of other countries that trade with the EU but
don't have to have free movement of labour...

grannyboy


You think it is a good thing that EU countries sell more to us than we sell to them. IT IS NOT, they make more from us than we make from them.

For a start we buy.
All the Airbus planes that BA buy., All the BMW's, Merc's Audi's. Most of the rolling stock for our new trains. Chemicals, Gas. We buy a lot of expensive stuff we can not get elsewhere, and we are unlikely to put tariffs on this when we leave. We don't make it but we need it.

In return
We sell less back to EU. All that we sell they can supply themselves.

The outers have 3 models of trade agreements
a Norway
b Canada
c WTO
all have added costs if we want to sell into Europe.

Even if you wish to insist that they keep the status quo and lock in our cross trade, we lose because we have to buy more from them than we sell them.

It is not correct to assume that if we buy their Airbus, BMW, French wine, cheese etc,
they will buy our stuff. We need their stuff, they don't need ours so much.

I will try again:

"Can some of you outers answer me this, If we want to sell into the EU from outside how do we not abide by their free movement of Labour rules?"

Stan people don't answer you because you don't answer any body else's questions ,you have got some gall to write that.

It is not correct to assume that if we buy their Airbus, BMW, French wine, cheese etc,
they will buy our stuff. We need their stuff, they don't need ours so much.
===============

will10 what a load of rubbish ,you think we need their cars ,look at the build quality of Hyundai and Kia to name just a couple of brands ,the world has changed also look at the scandal with VW ,they are lucky we are such a big market for them .
You are scare mongering just like Osbourne

Grannyboy

The US has WTO agreements with EU.
For example an agreement to sell aircraft into the EU in return for access to US for EU. This is to the mutual benefit of both countries. There are strict rules, and every now and then an argument pops up if one side thinks the other gets a government grant.
US/EU talks on agriculture has been going on for about 20 years US wants to sell GMO to EU and refuses UK beef. Limited trade goes on but no big deal. US sells us Iphones because we need them EU doesn't put up tariffs.
EU takes some things from China in return for limited access to China. But some EU members not happy (steel companies)
Cross trade not easy to setup. That's way we have a simple single market.
We need to stay in for economic reasons. 50 50 on politics.

They are my toys nobody else's and I won't share them!

And I will only play with you when I am winning.

I want mine and yours and the rules are unfair!

So there!


Mind if it means the end of a Tory party?

I change my cars every two or three years and each time I walk around the Mercedes and BMW showrooms, then out again. Apart from the fact that the salesmen are more interested in selling used cars, I find better value elsewhere. Toyota for the best 4X4s, by far, and Lexus for a family car or SUV.
I did have an Audi 100 many moons ago and it was a very good car until a moron in a merc rear-ended me, to clarify, rear-ended it, on the M1. Nowadays the Audi seems to have taken over from the Ford as the travelling saleman's car of choice. Nice looking cars, idiot drivers.
Apart from the fact that there are principles other than money involved in leaving the EU, the notion that good trade deals cannot be worked is scaremongering at its worst. Goebels would be proud of Cameron and Osborne.
Vote out and be proud of it.

Oh do stop being so childish and evasive JB.

You are asked a relevant, straight forward question about trading with the EU from outside, so I will give all you outers another chance to answer the original question.

"Can some of you outers answer me this, If we want to sell into the EU from outside how do we not abide by their free movement of Labour rules?"

Stan you have never answered a question on here now shut up or tell everyone why they should vote to stay in ,god you won't even say if your in or out .