Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

P8495

Far from being 'little englanders' we leavers seek to have trading partners worldwide, not for us the inefficient protectionist euro club. You would be more accurate with 'little europeans'

have you guys not yet learned that fred will always argue that black is white, and if you then agree, he'll change tack and say no, white is black

It depends on the amount of light being shone.

I'm a shining light.

personally, i voted out with great misgivings and considerable reluctance ...... i am now ever more pleased that i did

like everyone else, i don't know what the future will bring - not that one ever does - but i dislike what i see emanating from brussels more and more

it's always the easy option to accept the status quo and to fail to take an action because one is afraid of the perceived risk .... that so few run their own businesses is a good example

Agreed.

Majority of Britons think UK is right to leave the European Union for first time in six months


By Christopher Hope, Chief Political Correspondent
19 January 2018 • 7:42pm




A majority of Britons believe that the country was right to vote for Brexit for the first time in six months.

A new poll by YouGov found that 45 per cent of people think Britons were right to vote to leave the European Union, up three per cent.

The same poll found that 44 per cent of people think the UK is wrong to want to leave, down two per cent.

The YouGov tracking poll tests the will of the people with regularly survey.

Matthew Goodwin, the polling expert, said it was the first time since July 2007 that “right has been ahead” of wrong in the tracking poll.

He added: “As I have argued since June 2016, we will see no major shifts in public opinion on this question because it is a vote that is far more expressive/value driven than 'normal' policy choices.”


There is a pic here (cant post) and the rest of the article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/19/majority-britons-think-uk-right-leave-european-union-first-time/

For some an interesting article by Andrew Rawnsley.

Unfortunately, you may need more than Manuel's attention span to read or understand it.

Democracy is more fragile than many of us realised, but don’t believe that it is doomed
Andrew Rawnsley Andrew Rawnsley


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/21/democracy-is-more-fragile-than-many-of-us-realised-but-do-not-believe-that-it-is-doomed

Interesting article Fred.

However, we don't need another referendum.

If you read the comments, you will see a reply that sums you lot up:



Okay, we’ve had a referendum...

...you didn’t like the outcome...

...so we had a general election and 85% of candidates were voted into Westminster on a Brexit platform...

...you didn’t like the outcome...

...so now you want a second referendum, which you’ll loose too...

...and you won’t like the out come...

...Liberals hate democracy, please spare me your platitudes!

Here's JR-M in action once again....this time he's destroying David Davies concerning the Brexit Transition Period:

"The UK risks being EU's 'lackey' during Brexit transition," Jacob Rees-Mogg warns during row with David Davis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD-i8H2mYGs

This is why a lot of people, like TM and a lot of the other 'higher Remainers' are fearful of him. It's also why he ought to be leading the Brexit negotiations.

And maybe why he would make a very strong Prime Minister, too.

Struck me that J-RM was doing a fine job rubbishing the activities of the Head Honcho DDavies . . . who, for my money is a rabbit caught in double-headlights: one from the EU negotiators, and another from the Remain group which is most of Parliament.
I do winder what MP know that their constituents fail to grasp... could it be the MP wishes to retire on EU Pension, with lavish meals over drinks.... if they don't make it to the very English drinking Club attached to HoC?
IMHO. the "Representatives" in Parliament are only there as the best of the worst.... and do not represent the tide of humanity that pay their wages.
Grr.

The UK is a 'vassal state' - Rees-Mogg and David Davis go to war over Brexit

https://www.rt.com/uk/416868-brexit-jacob-rees-mogg/


Rees-Mogg was furious over the prospect.

“Allowing continued Court of Justice jurisdiction, it’s hard to think of any precedent anywhere in the world where an independent nation has taken the judgements of a foreign court as its superior and immediate law without having any judge on that court,” he said.

Can't argue with that logic. I suppose we could do a Nelson and turn a blind eye but why go there in the first place? Dumb.

It depends on whether the laws, rules, or regulations are good or not and the consequences of transgressing them.

(edited)

if laws etc are good, then it may be that they would be or are already in uk books
consequences imposed by or on whom?

Laws etc. develop and change according to developments within a society.

Implemented locally and by various levels and variety of courts.

For me, it seemed sensible to expect a similar standard of "laws" and implementation in Handsworth, Birmingham, London the UK and in Europe.

There is bound to be variation in "implementations" of the laws according to "local" needs.

To me, it seems to be reasonable to have a superior court or structure to review those laws and implementation.

it's a matter of fact that the law tends to lag sociey's mores of the time, which in some ways is no bad thing

however, except in certain areas, there is no one-size-fits-all with regard to law even across the whole of europe (you forgot about the world!)

in specific, i and most others thought it outrageous that echj blocked uk from deporting abu hamza in case he got tortured when he was returned whence he came ...... we should care? ...... in this specific, assuredly not

i also do not think that prisoners serving long (to define) sentences should have the right to vote

there are many other areas where i think uk courts should have the final say over what happens within uk

I thought that England was the world.

if that is so, then we most assuredly don't need any interference from europe!