Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Yawn .

I realise that you're not very bright and have difficulty understanding simple things, Vicky, but please do try to stay awake.

Here's Soros' leaked Battle Plan, given to dinner party guests earlier this week. Note the references to youth focussed demonstrations:



The campaign relies heavily on launch advertising and free media to wake the country up and assert that BREXIT is not a done deal. That it's not too late to stop BREXIT. The first wave is planned for late February and is why funding is now so urgent. Like the campaign overall, the paid media will have a heavy youth focus.

We will then move to constituency building activities through a combination of person-to-person campaigning and social media that pulls together stakeholders, including consumers, in sectors like the NHS, auto, aviation, pharma etc; again with a major youth push and other similar targeted activities. We have identified partner organisations in these sectors who will lead as we provide strategic, messaging, creative, social media and critically financial support. The partner organisations include unions, employee organisations, youth and consumer groups etc. Many are not exclusively Remain organisations but have wider community or industry interests which make them powerful third party endorsers of the Remain message.

We are also building a national field presence, concentrated on seats whose MPs needs [sic] to be brought into the Remain column by providing financial and other support to the European Movement, which has the best, but limited, current field presence of the Remain Groups.

We have a range of guerrilla marketing tactics in preparation to build early public impact by seizing attention and indicating a building momentum. A prominent Remain figure, Andrew Adonis, will brainstorm the top 100 leave constituencies. We are planning youth focused concerts and march combinations for the summer.

Our goals are to raise public support for Remain to a clear and growing national majority by June/July 2018 and channeling that pressure into MPs mailbags and surgeries,

We must then win the meaningful vote that Mrs May has promised on her BREXIT deal in October of this year. That is likely to trigger a new referendum, or election. We must prevail decisively so reassuring Europe that our return will be permanent.

Surely to goodness, political activities cannot legally be run like this when the whole country held a legal referendum and voted to exit the EU?

What's been described above is surely just a tadge short of criminal treasonable conspiracy and the perpetrators of the management of this are deservant of legal punishment in the courts.

In normal elections the funding is very carefully controlled with laws. I hope Soros and his mates lose lots of money on this and make utter fools of themselves.

Come on, JRM! Let's wish you all the best success in the world with your political oratory and I hope you take these opponents to the cleaners.

Hils , they managed to get some of them to go a couple of hundred yards from their house to vote. Not the same as getting them to march in a city miles away. And any protests will be met with counter protests by the far right and end up in a big punch up.

Maybe that's what Soros wants.

Real bad losers these remoaners.

Never argue with a woman, they just don't think like us.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3XjUFYxSxDk

Doc and Dil,

When the Leave vote won the referendum by such a slender margin, executing Brexit was never going to be easy and the Remain camp were always going to fight back. It would be naive to think otherwise.

As I see it, it's all about timing now. The October vote is going to be all important, and the remainers have probably only got one last chance. As they see it, they may have lost a few battles, but they haven't lost the war yet. They now have the advantage of a large warchest, whereas UKIP are skint.

And bringing Moggy into the fray is only going to make matters worse if you want Brexit to go through. It's at times like this that you need to be accomodating of everybody's different opinions, and move to a common solution on the centre ground imo, rather than to lurch further to the right.

One other thing with all the talk of snowflakes being lazy. Youth unemployment is at a low, and nearly 88% of the lazy do-nothings actually get out of bed and go to work in the morning. If they can do that, I'm pretty sure they won't pass up the opportunity of a free concert or two in the summer.

The view from Bethlem and floated on the Ebbw.

Hilary, the referendum was not won by a slender margin, the difference was around 1.25M votes or the best part of 4%. Much bigger than most US presidential elections, for example. But they get on with it. Eventually. Now, if the election had gone by 10 votes to the remainders, do you think that we would be having this debate? It would be done and dusted, you lost, get over it. But the EU socialists don't like things not going their way. Socialist states rarely do.
I have no problem listening to other opinions but accepting them is another. We voted to leave, anything short of that is unacceptable. Barnier can threaten as much as he likes, but all he does is make people more determined, even some former remainders. We understand that "accomodating" is actually the thin end of the wedge that the Sore-ass disciples are using to undermine the referendum result.

How many days left Dil?

I understand what you're saying, iturama, and I don't disagree with you, but you've now got a minority government who are tasked with executing the electorate's wishes. If Maggie May had increased her majority as she planned, things would be totally different, but they're not, and there's a real threat that Brexit may never happen imo.

411 days to go :-)

Vote for Welsh Assembley was won by less than 7000 votes. Now that was close be did the losers moan and complain ?

Why don't you counter the threat of Soros and organise a pro-Brexit demonstration and concert of your own, Dilbert?

I'm sure Vicky would turn up with her zimmer frame, especially if you could get Vera Lynn as the headline act. :o)

To me, the problem with the last referendum held in the UK on the "EU" were the parameters it was proposed on.

The referendum was badly drawn up while specifying remaining in the EU as one choice, i.e. the status quo, the other choice of “exit” was non-specific with unknown consequences for the majority and the results ill-considered by many.

Presentation of “a pig in a poke” comes to mind.

Many of those voting for “out” were in reactionary mode, blaming and voting against Cameron and Osborne and the phantasy elite in Europe, hoping that doing so was a magical remedy for their own discontents and the effects of “austerity” policies.

Others, simply blaming their “discomforts” on “immigration” and voting on racial “bias” and scapegoating and holding EU immigration rules for such resulting. for the UK’s economic malaise. Immigration has been in constant flux for centuries and will continue to be so.

(There were many other underlying and more hidden reasons on objecting to rule by “Brussels”. Some relating to financial regulations the proposed future changes of “openness” and also “employment” protections etc..)

The results and probable effects of “Brexit” have to be clarified and laid out clearly for the public before another referendum.

It is obvious at the moment the government hasn’t got a clue about the consequences and has no real policies for dealing with probable problems.

When, or if, they have done their “homework” then they should present the “possibilities” of “exit” in another referendum.

If with fuller information about the “results” of exiting, the public vote for an exit, so be it, but for me, the voting the result should be a justified, reasoned choice, not a knee jerked reaction as it appears to be at the moment.
-=-=-=-=-=

Democracy is allowed to change its mind.

Slavery was acceptable once.

Legalised abortion is now acceptable.

The masses often vote one way and later change their opinions.

=-=-=-=-=-

An interesting summary



Since this government can’t govern, parliament must take charge of Brexit Andrew Rawnsley Andrew Rawnsley:

Since this government can’t govern, parliament must take charge of Brexit
Andrew Rawnsley Andrew Rawnsley

31/12/2020 Good-bye

While I agree with a lot of your post 8650 you fail to mention that a lot of people voted in because of the scaremongering of the reamain campaign.

Your logic for a second referendum is total rubbish , if as you state those who voted out didn't vote for any specific type of exit then the best you should be hoping for is a second referendum on how we leave and not a re run of do we leave and only leave voters should be allowed to vote.

As the above is impossible and how we leave is mainly down to the EU as far as a deal goes then I can see no valid reason for another vote.

Before I commit myself to driving down a road I like to have a reasonable knowledge of how long it is and where that road leads to.

The direction of the road that we went down when we joined the Common Market was changed time and time again without our knowledge/agreement, don't hear you say anything about that.