Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

The view from Bethlem and floated on the Ebbw.

Hilary, the referendum was not won by a slender margin, the difference was around 1.25M votes or the best part of 4%. Much bigger than most US presidential elections, for example. But they get on with it. Eventually. Now, if the election had gone by 10 votes to the remainders, do you think that we would be having this debate? It would be done and dusted, you lost, get over it. But the EU socialists don't like things not going their way. Socialist states rarely do.
I have no problem listening to other opinions but accepting them is another. We voted to leave, anything short of that is unacceptable. Barnier can threaten as much as he likes, but all he does is make people more determined, even some former remainders. We understand that "accomodating" is actually the thin end of the wedge that the Sore-ass disciples are using to undermine the referendum result.

How many days left Dil?

I understand what you're saying, iturama, and I don't disagree with you, but you've now got a minority government who are tasked with executing the electorate's wishes. If Maggie May had increased her majority as she planned, things would be totally different, but they're not, and there's a real threat that Brexit may never happen imo.

411 days to go :-)

Vote for Welsh Assembley was won by less than 7000 votes. Now that was close be did the losers moan and complain ?

Why don't you counter the threat of Soros and organise a pro-Brexit demonstration and concert of your own, Dilbert?

I'm sure Vicky would turn up with her zimmer frame, especially if you could get Vera Lynn as the headline act. :o)

To me, the problem with the last referendum held in the UK on the "EU" were the parameters it was proposed on.

The referendum was badly drawn up while specifying remaining in the EU as one choice, i.e. the status quo, the other choice of “exit” was non-specific with unknown consequences for the majority and the results ill-considered by many.

Presentation of “a pig in a poke” comes to mind.

Many of those voting for “out” were in reactionary mode, blaming and voting against Cameron and Osborne and the phantasy elite in Europe, hoping that doing so was a magical remedy for their own discontents and the effects of “austerity” policies.

Others, simply blaming their “discomforts” on “immigration” and voting on racial “bias” and scapegoating and holding EU immigration rules for such resulting. for the UK’s economic malaise. Immigration has been in constant flux for centuries and will continue to be so.

(There were many other underlying and more hidden reasons on objecting to rule by “Brussels”. Some relating to financial regulations the proposed future changes of “openness” and also “employment” protections etc..)

The results and probable effects of “Brexit” have to be clarified and laid out clearly for the public before another referendum.

It is obvious at the moment the government hasn’t got a clue about the consequences and has no real policies for dealing with probable problems.

When, or if, they have done their “homework” then they should present the “possibilities” of “exit” in another referendum.

If with fuller information about the “results” of exiting, the public vote for an exit, so be it, but for me, the voting the result should be a justified, reasoned choice, not a knee jerked reaction as it appears to be at the moment.
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Democracy is allowed to change its mind.

Slavery was acceptable once.

Legalised abortion is now acceptable.

The masses often vote one way and later change their opinions.

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An interesting summary



Since this government can’t govern, parliament must take charge of Brexit Andrew Rawnsley Andrew Rawnsley:

Since this government can’t govern, parliament must take charge of Brexit
Andrew Rawnsley Andrew Rawnsley

31/12/2020 Good-bye

While I agree with a lot of your post 8650 you fail to mention that a lot of people voted in because of the scaremongering of the reamain campaign.

Your logic for a second referendum is total rubbish , if as you state those who voted out didn't vote for any specific type of exit then the best you should be hoping for is a second referendum on how we leave and not a re run of do we leave and only leave voters should be allowed to vote.

As the above is impossible and how we leave is mainly down to the EU as far as a deal goes then I can see no valid reason for another vote.

Before I commit myself to driving down a road I like to have a reasonable knowledge of how long it is and where that road leads to.

The direction of the road that we went down when we joined the Common Market was changed time and time again without our knowledge/agreement, don't hear you say anything about that.

Fred the great thinker .

Fred.

Did you vote in the 5th June 1975 referendum? And if so, did you get what you thought you were voting for??

Fred doesn't vote, just likes to sound off

Dil,

There is no reason for a second referendum, as you rightly say imo, except that Maggie May has given parliament a meaningful vote on the exit deal and, as she is running a minority government, she may well not get the vote through. Especially so now that Soros is throwing money at it.

Now I know that a deal not going through parliament hypothetically means that the UK leaves at the end of March 2019 anyway without any deal - that's been discussed here previously - but do you really think that's how it will all shape out? I don't. I think there could easily be another referendum, or another general election before next year.

There will not be another public referendum trust me.

I came across a different perspective to the hospital cricis today. I had to take my mother in law to A&E for an appointment to have a dressing changed after she fell down and cut her leg on Sunday which took us there.

The A&E was packed. There were whole families there including a Romanian family of 10 with 4 unruly children. The family were warned that the police would be called if their children continued to cause havoc.

Anyway, back to the point of the story. I spoke to the practice nurse about the numbers waiting. He said that they treat a lot of illegals. They don't register with a GP in case they are found to be illegal. The result is that they go to A&E for everything. It doesn't matter if it is a headache, a cold, a small cut or anything else. I wandered around the department while waiting and only heard English spoken twice.

Jimbo,

If Maggie gets a good deal from the EU (and I happen to think she will), then she'll get October's vote through Parliament and everything will be ticketyboo.

If she loses October's vote, however, she'll then face a vote of no confidence which she'll lose, there'll be a General Election because nobody else will be able to form a government, and Corbyn will sweep to power on the back of a manifesto pledge to hold a second referendum.