Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

"but certainly it is what the british public voted for"


Less than 33% of the possible electorate voted for stated "out", whatever they thought that meant to them at the time.

Perhaps, many did not like the slovenly way the referendum was stated.

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Britain leaving Britain will be followed by the EU tuning its back on the UK.

Work out, as a proportion, what trade with Britain means to each individual country of the EU.

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By the way, to whom does the present cabinet bend over backwards and show their backsides to?

Friends in the Cayman Isles or Qatar?

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If there is a good case to plead again the "organisation", plead them in Brussels without going whining off into the wilderness.

Behave as big boys do.

Accept majority rulings but keep negotiating until one can sway opinion in you favour or review what you are requesting.

now try to offer a balanced view for a change .... it';s because you rarely (almost never do) that you are so boringly tiresome and thus ignored most of the time


perhaps start by practicing what you preach - accept majority rulings and behave as big boys do
to leave eu is what the majority who voted, voted for

those who failed to cast a vote one way or another, abdicated their responsibility and have no right to complain about the what the majority of those who voted did vote for

Manuel,

You are beginning to become more and more repetitive.

Senility advances.

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Those who voted against remaining in the EU were voting against a fictitious enemy, many being xenophobic and blaming others for their woes and the failures of themselves and their own poor government.

The goals and gains of voting out were ill-defined, pie in the sky and illusionary and fed by con artists to the discontented.

Rants similar to the neo-fascists in Germany in the 1930 and present day BNP.

(Are you affiliated to the latter. )

About 30% of the electorate voted for the unknown.

The unknown is still unknown and you seem daft enough to pay for it.

Perhaps, you will be able to buy a hideaway in Qatar.

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Those who voted against remaining in the EU were voting against a fictitious enemy ...... absolutely not so

one could make a similarly fatuous comment about those who voted to remain

i KNOW why i ultimately decided to vote out though, and as posted many times at the time, with grave misgivings

Who is it that keeps reminding us about wasting time talking to Fred when there are other things more useful to do do?

me sometimes, though not usually on here often enough to bother :-)

h/t to pineapple across the road.


More bad brexit news.

https://www.ft.com/content/b177c726-1c5b-11e8-956a-43db76e69936

from today's FT for you chaps to dwell on, and nop doubt bat about for at least a day ......

Talk to EU policymakers and you will be told that Britain has yet to make the hard choices on Brexit. The standard line is that Theresa May’s government is still trying to “have its cake and eat it” — leaving the EU, but retaining many of the benefits of membership. Britain must drop this “magical thinking” and make some crucial decisions. Once that is done, the structure of the future EU-UK relationship will be dictated by law and precedent.
That argument has some truth to it. But what it misses is that the EU also has important choices to make. By treating Brexit as, above all, a legal process, the EU is largely ignoring the political and strategic implications of Britain leaving the EU. That is an intellectual failure that could have dangerous consequences for all sides.

It is clearly true that the EU is a legal order. But it is also a political organisation. The EU is perfectly capable of creating new laws — or interpreting current ones with extreme flexibility — when it is politically necessary.

Most of the EU policymakers are left of centre and, like Fred, incapable of flexibility. Their answer is to batten down and demand obedience to their idealogy. Unfortunately for them, the common man eventually says - basta!

It,

It strikes me that a neo-con like you appear to be, never takes his blinkers off.

Mind you probably you go to the shop furthest away from you to buy your goods.

Surely it's the centrists who are flexible, and the extremists of both sides who aren't?

as is nearly always the case hilary

Hilary,

As an extremist Manuel knows what he is talking about and certainly believes in his own fluctuating opinions.

The basic requirements of the far right such as BNP and Neo-cons.

;-)

Perhaps, Manuel sees himself as Horatius with JB and Vicky defending the tunnel against Macron.


(I will have a lie down after that construction.)

"I will have a lie down after that construction"

Hmmm? Fred is beginning to remind me of Sister Monica, the 81 yr old nun in "Call The Midwife."

The programme is a Sunday night 'regular' in our house. The old biddy, Sister Monica, does have a certain personalised way of saying things.

Other countries leaving within the next few years , take that to the bank.

certainly there will be and indeed needs to be a major reconstruction of the eurozone

whether it all collapses in a heap of dust withing the next 15 years remains to be seen, though i think it unlikely

From another board - poster SKYSHIP


Really good news in a missive today from LABOUR LEAVE:

===============================================



Tony Blair is at it again. Last week the disgraced former PM made a plea for the EU to reform immigration, so that Remain could win a second referendum on Brexit.



Putting aside that most would vote Leave regardless of immigration reform, particularly after they've seen what a nasty little bully the EU has become, the sheer audacity of the man is mind-blowing. He said,



"I find it not just disappointing but sickening that people should really be prepared to sacrifice peace in Northern Ireland on the altar of Brexit."



Yes, you heard him right. He is giving moral lectures on "peace".



What we find sickening at Labour Leave, beyond the Iraq war of course, is politicians holding democracy and the voting public in contempt. We find it sickening that our leaders can have such casual disregard for our most basic rights of all - to elect those who make our laws, and to have our electoral decisions, including referendums, respected.



Blair is now a staunch opponent of democracy, and the 'little people' whose votes he tramples on.



To puff up his anti-democratic crusade he ran an online poll, should we "leave whatever the cost", or "stay and rethink". Humiliatingly for Mr Blair, the results were 70% in favour of "leaving whatever the cost".



The papers have also had stories the last few days with sources suggesting there has been clear collusion, between very senior Labour figures and the Brussels/Barnier team. The collusion, if true, will likely include Mr Blair.



The British public are being treated appallingly here. Well-funded multi-millionaires in Britain and Europe appear to be colluding, in very crude terms, to undermine a free and fair referendum. This is nothing new for the EU, of course, but it is a first for Britain.



Either we accept this, we give up on living in a democratic state, or we continue fighting for votes to be respected - for the British people to remain the ultimate arbiter of what happens in our own country, the country that runs on our taxes and on our labour.



At Labour Leave we are clear we want the latter. We will keep fighting for British democracy to be respected but we desperately need help to do it.


http://www.labourleave.org.uk/

This is interesting:

'To puff up his anti-democratic crusade he (Tony Blair) ran an online poll, should we "leave whatever the cost", or "stay and rethink".'

I Googled Tony Blair's online Brexit poll and couldn't find anything which looked other than fake news and/or activist/extremist propoganda. I have no desire whatsoever to undermine the good name of SKYSHIP (whoever he or she may be?), so where can I find a link to the aforementioned poll and verify its accuracy?