Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I doubt it Fred unless of course you still don't believe we're leaving.

Peers versus the people as they vote down coming out of the customs union (ie. leaving the EU).

I think the people will win! The EU is not a democracy and is utterly barmy.

And so does my hero and 'PM in waiting', Jacob Rees-Mogg. He says a lot of the red robed EU supporters are 'cave dwellers' who rely on the support of the EU for their pensions.

Looks like the Father Christmas of the Year awards except that Father Christmas serves a purpose.

I nicked this from across the road, no link.



Mount Teide
22 Apr '18 - 17:04 - 66756 of 66769
0   3  1



Globally, the scale and pace of the economic decline of the EU since the UK joined is staggering.

In 1980, the nine nations then in the EU accounted for 30% of global GDP – measured by purchasing power parity, adjusting for prices.

Today, although the EU now has three times more member states, its world GDP share has plunged to 16pc.

The Commonwealth has fared differently. In 1980, its members made up 15pc of global GDP. Today, the figure is 18% with no increase in member states.

Clearly, abandoning a Commonwealth that subsequently went on to grow at many, many multiples of the rate of a massively over-regulated, highly protectionist EU has been a monumental mistake of epic proportions.

And, staying in or in very close alignment to the EU will only compound that huge mistake.

Why? Because demography is destiny. The EU has shrunk dramatically in relative economic terms, while its population profile continues to get much older. The Commonwealth, in contrast, home to a third of the world’s population and two fifths of those under 40, is primed for massive future growth. The Commonwealth is “the future”.

The Commonwealth boasts the second-biggest economy in Asia and the largest in Africa – the two most populous continents. Vibrant and fast growing, these continents are still building infrastructure and adopting new technologies at breakneck speed. They are at the heart of the West-to-East shift in global commerce, the economic mega trend of our time.

Those who dismissively scoff that Commonwealth nations are geographically distant ignore how global trade has changed. Almost total and continuous connectivity has slashed the cost of commu­nications and information transfer inside global value chains.

That has completely upended world trade patterns, making old trade-bloc thinking increasingly irrelevant. There is now far more freight containers shipped on Intra Asian and African Routes than on the once mighty trade shipping lanes to the USA and Europe combined.


Data Source - Liam Halligan/Economist

Aye , stuff the single market we voted to leave not remain.

.

if you removed the 19 "new" members from the equation, many of whom must be more of a drag than a benefit, then what would be the result?

My political hero tells it so fundamentally clearly.
From the Belfast Telegraph;

Peers playing with fire in attempts to thwart Brexit – Jacob Rees-Mogg
The influential Tory backbencher hinted that the future of the House of Lords could be in doubt if peers continued to oppose the people.
April 24 2018

The future of the House of Lords could be in doubt as peers are “playing with fire” by trying to thwart Brexit, Jacob Rees-Mogg has warned.

The Tory MP, leader of the influential European Research Group of Conservatives, said it was now a case of the “peers against the people” after the Government’s Brexit legislation suffered a series of defeats in the upper chamber.

His comments came after a petition calling for a referendum on abolishing the House of Lords passed the 100,000 signature mark, which could trigger a debate in Parliament.

"I think their lordships are playing with fire and it would be a shame to burn down a historic house" - Jacob Rees-Mogg

Mr Rees-Mogg, speaking in Parliament at an event organised by the Open Europe think tank, said peers “have to decide whether they love ermine or the EU more”.

In a series of forthright interventions, Mr Rees-Mogg:

– Said giving preferential immigration treatment to EU citizens after Brexit would be a “racist” policy

– Described Theresa May’s approach to Brexit as “enigmatic”

– Labelled the Government’s proposal for a customs partnership with the EU “completely cretinous”

The Government’s plans for Brexit have been dealt a series of blows in the Lords, with peers inflicting a massive defeat on the issue of leaving the customs union.

Mr Rees-Mogg claimed that peers were breaching the convention that the House of Lords should not prevent a Government implementing commitments made in its election manifesto.

And he said the Prime Minister had made it “absolutely clear” that she would not accept remaining in a customs union after Brexit.

The Government is expected to try to overturn the amendment in the Commons and Mr Rees-Mogg warned would-be Tory rebels: “I don’t think it’s fine for people to tell their voters they are standing to leave the customs union and then not to do that.”

In a message to the peers he accused of seeking to “thwart” the referendum result, Mr Rees-Mogg said: “It’s striking that 100,000 people can sign a petition so quickly.

“I think their lordships are playing with fire and it would be a shame to burn down a historic house.”

A petition calling for a referendum on the future of the Lords has passed 100,000 signatures.

Mr Rees-Mogg played down the prospect of the Government collapsing over the customs union issue, insisting that when it came to a vote in the Commons it would not be a confidence motion.

He rejected the suggestion that a defeat would be so damaging for Mrs May’s authority she would have to stand down.

“I think when you have got a very small majority you accept that you won’t always get every vote that you want, and you have to look at the legal effect of what happens.”

Theresa May's attitude to Brexit is hard to read

He said the Prime Minister’s attitude to Brexit was “hard to read”, but it was a “good thing” to have a leader who exercised self-control.

“The Prime Minister is a very enigmatic figure in this respect. She is carrying out the will of the British people but it’s hard to read what level of enthusiasm she has for it.

“She is doing it, she has never indicated anything other than that, she said ‘Brexit means Brexit’, but she doesn’t – by her nature – express herself unduly emotionally.

“I think that’s rather a good thing. I like having a Prime Minister who is able to exercise a good deal of self-control.”

The North East Somerset MP said if he was in the negotiations with Brussels he would be “much firmer and clearer about the costs to the EU” of a “no deal” scenario – which could leave the bloc “insolvent” without the UK’s money and risk crippling the Irish economy.

And he mocked the idea of a customs partnership, one of the two options put forward by the UK to deal with future customs arrangements.

The “completely cretinous” idea would see the UK collect tariffs on the EU’s behalf for goods landing in Britain but intended for the bloc’s market, something Mr Rees-Mogg said would be “impractical, bureaucratic” and “a betrayal of common sense”.

Mr Rees-Mogg, who has been tipped as a potential successor to Mrs May, played down his prospects.

“When the Conservative Party is in government, the prime minister always comes from a senior government position and that is a perfectly sensible state of affairs,” he said.

What a Mangy Moggy he is.




What group of "the people" does he represent and which part of the public is he happy to abuse for his own advantages?

Well said Mr Mogg.

Anything that pisses Fred off is fine by me.

A referendum on the future of the House of Lords , that would show them the meaning of democracy.

Dil.

What will you do with your new found democracy?

Probably wet your pants, unless you have already wet them.

Enjoy it Fred , that's what I'll do.

29 th March next year I might even rip down the road sign not far from me saying the EU paid for the new dual carriageway between Merthyr and Abergavenny and replace it with one saying fully paid for by UK taxpayers plus some for the EU scrounges.

Really pisses me off that sign. Maybe I could report it for false advertising or something.

Dil.

So reclaiming your "sovereignty and democracy" will really change your life's ambitions.

Freedom, at last, to do what?

To spend 8 billion a year more on the UK if we so wish for starters.

Tell me when you have done it!

Will do

Jacob Rees-Mogg is the leader Britain needs to stand up to the EU like none has dared since Thatcher
NIGEL FARAGE
Nigel Farage 25 APRIL 2018 • 10:09AM
620 Comments so far and rising as I type this
Here's the link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/25/jacob-rees-mogg-leader-britain-needs-stand-eu-like-none-have/

"Jacob Rees-Mogg described Theresa May's proposed customs partnership as 'cretinous'"

I never thought the day would come when a British political figure would speak as fearlessly and bluntly about the benefits of leaving the European Union as I have been doing for 20 years. Whenever I’ve used a word like “cretinous” during a serious political discussion, I’ve been lambasted for resorting to the language of the street, I’ve been criticised for leaning towards populism, and I’ve generally been regarded as somewhat coarse.

So it was a surprise when the refined figure of Jacob Rees-Mogg used exactly this term to describe the proposed customs partnership. This honest and scrupulous backbench MP, who chairs the European Research Group, addressed an Open Europe event in Westminster where he said the mooted partnership is “cretinous” and “a betrayal of good sense”.

He also warned members of the House of Lords, who this week voted three times against the government on the EU (Withdrawal) Bill, that their insistence on trying to thwart Brexit means they are “playing with fire”. And he gently knifed Theresa May by calling her a “very enigmatic figure” when it comes to our quitting the EU.

At this dreadful time when watching the Brexit process has been such total purgatory, all I can say is thank goodness for Rees-Mogg.

I know that he and I share many of the same views when it comes to the EU. However, it is fair to say that our approaches are rather different. What makes his words of yesterday significant, therefore, is that he cast aside his usual caution and told it like it is. For this, he should be applauded.

But, boy, do we need more like him to stand up and tell the truth as a matter of urgency.

I’ve been talking for months about the collusion between the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, and the British political establishment. Even though both parties accept that Brexit will happen on March 29, 2019, their aim is that the UK will remain so closely bound to the EU’s rules, and on such unfavourable terms, that the case will be made by Remainers for our re-entry.

Rees-Mogg knows this and is doing his damnedest to stop it. He recognises the importance of honouring the will of the people and his party’s 2017 manifesto pledge.

Perhaps the most revealing aspect of his address was his criticism of why the Brexit process is going wrong. While I understand Mrs May’s concerns about the parliamentary arithmetic problem she faces daily (a problem of her own making) I’ve often wondered why she isn’t more robust and doesn't just take on the EU’s bullying bureaucrats.

The simple answer, as Rees-Mogg himself said, is that she lacks “enthusiasm” for Brexit. She didn’t vote for Brexit, she doesn’t believe in Brexit, and whenever she’s asked whether she’d vote today for Brexit, she can’t answer the question. Thus Britain finds itself in the bizarre situation where all the Brexiteers in Conservative-supporting newspapers and within the party itself are desperate to keep in place a prime minister who doesn’t actually share their beliefs on the EU question for fear of a fatal split which might let in a Corbyn-led Marxist government.

I still think that Britain will achieve Brexit, but if Mrs May were to back track on the customs union and some of the other major promises that were made to the electorate by everyone on the Brexit side – and in her own 2017 manifesto – it would be fair to say the chances of the Tories winning the next election are zero. If Mrs May acquiesces on any of this, she will hand the country to Corbyn on a plate. This, as all fair-minded people know, would be ruinous.

It cannot be said enough times: the UK leaving the customs union, making the most of its independence, and being free to make its own trade deals is vital - even more so as France moves by stealth to replace the UK as Donald Trump’s preferred partner. Brexit and Trump were supposed to be the opportunity for the Atlantic to get a lot narrower. In fact, the gulf between our countries appears to be as big as ever.

When the Conservative Party was led by Mrs Thatcher, I was quite happy to pay my membership fee. Whether I agreed with everything she did or not, she was a leader with a clear and strong vision, unafraid of the Establishment, deaf to confected criticism, and determined to kick on in a direction of her choosing.

More than that, the EU’s bureaucrats were frightened of her. When she took her handbag to Fontainebleau in 1984, she struck the deal that ended the fight over Britain’s budget contribution to the EC, as it was. When Tony Blair tried the same trick in 2005, he was completely outsmarted and gave away £7 billion of our rebate. No British leader since Thatcher – up to and including May - has pursued any other policy than appeasement of our unelected European lords and masters.

Since Thatcher’s downfall in 1990, there has not been a single Conservative leader who really believed in Britain and was prepared to stand up and fight for what is right while telling the unvarnished truth. With that in mind, I now begin to wonder whether Rees-Mogg might perhaps have the necessary qualities to lead the country. Just consider this.

A few days ago the Irish Commissioner Phil Hogan told an EU press conference: “…we’re very pleased in the European Union that we’re dealing with the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, not with Mr. Rees-Mogg.”

Mr Hogan is right. Jacob is the leader Britain needs.

Now at 670 comments. That's 50 more comments in the 10 minutes elapsed since I posted the above.