Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

for a change that is actually very amusing

Pinched from Traders' Thread.


https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-view-wednesday/daily-briefing-academic-row-adds-to-italian-coalition-mess-idUKKCN1IO0TR

Brexit will be a doddle compared to the problems the EU will face if Italy pulls out of the Euro.

Junky and co must be pulling their hair out , Greece problem will probably pop up again in the not too distant future.

Pig-headed. They are on the way to achieving the very thing they claim to be against.

I wonder that Italy isn't having a Brexit of its own...except they don't have the past-history to believe it's possible..... At least here we were "Great" and some believe that can be done again without the Europeans dragging us down with Red-Tape and £-Contributions.... ( So why we agree to provide any pay-off amazes me!).
Where there are Joint-Projects then we need to negotiate the situation, so we are recognised for the % to date AND what investment we'll provide ( while matching theirs.), obviously being "partners" in any given "Project" and paying a % we must have a say in how that "Project" is run . . . something that many in Europe would support, knowing that UK-plc might do some good.
As to "new" projects...I think these should rely on their Merits.... wherever we see collaboration benefits... & Why not?
However, the Remoaners' slogans of "Better IN, to add our Say" falls on deaf ears (with ME), since I'm not able to recall ANY situation where GB-input has been accepted and Eurocrats have followed our suggestions.
.... but Anyone, please say.

Where I find madness is the Government is hardly FOR Brexit ( except in words), and Parliament wants to forget the Referendum, believing that THEY know better and WE should listen to our Betters. Much the same applies to the HoL- which I believed was a "stabalising back-stop" -but now the HoL is full of CRONIES- it's difficult to detect any difference in the Houses. The Members should be selected on NOT being politicos.... and pref. with some tech-knowledge so they can stop hair-brained PROJECTS that cost the Earth and return only Dust.
Arrgh!

I have always believed that MPs should be lemmings and follow their betters and not be able to reconsider previous policies when new evidence is revealed.

=-=-=-=-=

Whoever wrote this must be an idiot.

Cooperation our watchword
The Observer27 May 2018
In arguing for the UK’s membership of Efta/EEA as the best option for implementing Brexit while protecting the livelihood of British workers (“A return to common market principles is the best way to leave EU”, Focus, last week), Stephen Hammond MP says that we must ditch the political aspects of the EU so we can retain the economic benefits. But the primary motivation for the founding of the EU’s predecessors was political, as a reaction to centuries of conflict with ever varying combinations of allies and enemies.

I voted Remain on balance for political reasons rather than economic ones. The unprecedented range of problems faced by the human race today can only be solved by cooperation at all levels, from the individual to the global. The EU is an attempt to implement this to a limited extent at one of those levels. In or out of the EU, cooperation must still be the watchword.

Frank Jackson Harlow, Essex

Yep he's a right idiot Fred.

Believe it or not but nations outside of the EU co-operate with each other as remoaners would see if they took their heads out of their arses.

303 days to go.

Dil.

Of course, you are referring to peace and tranquillity of the M.E. as well as Russian and its border states or perhaps Russia and Europe in general.

Trump and Canada, China, North and South Korea.

Perfect harmony.

But Britain reneging on previous agreements is good for future business deals, especially those done with those with the same business morality and reliability of Trump and cohorts.

-=-=-=-=

Forgot it is the new international business morality. Anything goes.

The future would seem safe in hands similar to yours.

And what previous agreements are we reneging on?

How a van driver explained the impact of Brexit to Jacob Rees-Mogg

The courier boss who challenged Jacob Rees-Mogg on Brexit explains why we need to stay in the customs union and the single market

88 COMMENTS (as I type). Check them out (George Soros conspirators? or not?) at:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/how-van-driver-explained-impact-12620627#comments-section

From Mirror online
By Ciaran Donovan

13:50, 30 MAY 2018
UPDATED14:13, 30 MAY 2018

My name is Ciaran, and I have over a decade of hands-on knowledge in express and customs-free movements of commercial goods in and out of Europe.

This week I challenged Jacob Rees-Mogg live on the radio because he is making misleading claims about what leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union will mean for small business owners like me.

For the last twelve years I have established my own European Express Transport Business, mainly transporting for “just in time” supply chains.

This includes collecting components for the automotive industry all over Europe and delivering them to 24-hour production lines back in the UK where most car firms rely on a 'just in time' supply of components.

Some of my customers include Ford in Dagenham and Bridgend, Jaguar Land Rover in the Midlands, BMW Mini in Oxford and Nissan in Sunderland, as well as Rolls-Royce on the south coast.

All these car makers rely on the express movements of goods to assist in the smooth operation of their production lines, as they do not have the space to stockpile.

Prompt collection is absolutely vital.

Most of the jobs I work on are only made possible by being inside the Single Market, which gives me access to the goods, whilst being in the Customs Union means no physical border to clear them.

Politicians like Jacob Rees-Mogg and Kate Hoey talk a lot about Switzerland being a possible model for how the UK could operate outside the EU and outside the Customs Union.

(Lorries can face being stacked up at Dover if there is additional paperwork from Brexit)

Well I’ve got actual experience of delivering goods from the EU into Switzerland and there are huge amounts of checks and paperwork and costs and delays involved.

Believe me, it is very far from frictionless.

When I was delivering goods for an exhibition there, I had to get an invoice of the goods in advance from the client, pay an upfront cost (to be claimed back later), contact a customs agent at Dover to let him know what was I delivering, wait hours in a car park whilst the paperwork was being cleared, drive to Switzerland and then clear customs again at the Swiss border.

None of this is necessary if you’re in the Customs Union.

Norway is another model that sometimes gets brought up, even though Norway is in the Single Market which the UK Government wants to leave (although like Switzerland, Norway is not in the Customs Union).

Again, I’ve delivered goods across the Norway border and it’s not as straightforward as we are being told by the politicians.

Due to the nature of the goods I was delivering, I was advised to get a carnet - a passport for goods.

(Jacob Rees-Mogg is accused of misleading people over the impact of Brexit)

They vary in price but this one cost £750. It took my customer one week to compile the carnet, and EVERYTHING had to be listed.

If you get it wrong, the fines are big, even if it’s an honest mistake.

Once I arrived in Norway I was stopped by customs and told to park up while they check everything in my van against what was listed on the carnet, a process that took five hours.

I recently acquired a big contract with a major European customer to collect and deliver goods on an express service (usually overnight) from Paris to London and back twice a week.

This will only be made possible by the freedom of movement of commercial goods.

I really fear that this contract will be lost if we leave.

I know it’s not just about me.

This is about the wider picture: we need to look after the interests of the UK as a whole, not just the wishes of a few who want to leave the Customs Union and the Single Market for their own benefit.

That’s why I support a People’s Vote on the final Brexit deal , so that we can look at what’s actually on offer and decide if it’s in the best interests of the whole country.

The whole thing is made up EL, just another brick in the wall excuse by the remainers.

The idea of a man and van moving stuff around €urope on a just in time basis is laughable. It works for local suppliers within a few hours of the main factory, but other than that it defeats the purpose as it takes too long to complete the exercise.

Italy anyone?

Maxk , just in time does work across longer distances it's just that the goods leave the factory earlier and will still work outside the single market.

If say it takes 24 hours to ship from here to Ford in Germany prior to Brexit and 36 hours or even 48 hours post Brexit then this will be allowed for when goods are dispatched.

Not fecking rocket science is it ?

Fred , so are you suggesting that by staying in we will resolve all the conflicts you mention or that by coming out we are going to start some type of war with the EU ?

No, but remaining in is better than P up against the wall on the outside.

it's a view, but no more valid than wanting to escape

Why P up against the wall on the outside when you can smash your head against it on the inside?

Lol

Comment by Jacob Rees-Mogg

We have sent man to the Moon, the bottom of the ocean, survived war, plague and the creation of the internet, yet there are those who tell us leaving the European Union’s customs union is a problem that makes solving Fermat’s Last Theorem look like a doddle.

This is manifestly not the case. The problem, in so far as it exists, is purely political and based on a number of false premises.

The main false premise is that it is not possible to leave the customs union and keep the Northern Irish border free of new infrastructure.

This has been denied clearly on multiple occasions by the head of HMRC Jon Thompson and his Irish opposite number Niall Cody.

The second is that to keep the border free flowing in Northern Ireland, we will have to have a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK – unless the entire UK remains in the EU’s customs union.

Its proponents – the Irish Government – know an Irish Sea border is impossible as it would split up the UK, but, smelling caution in Westminster, see no reason to let up the pressure.

The third is that we do not have enough time to develop IT software to leave the customs union – again disproved by HMRC.

We already have processes for dealing with our non-EU trade.

We are not reinventing the wheel – simply creating faster channels for our trade.

The last false premise is that there is some happy compromise waiting to be discovered.

However, customs union membership is binary and Leave won.

There will always be more fair-weather friends willing to compromise and wait than do the homework and take a decision – but decision time is arriving, analogue will give way to digital.

The truth is that leaving the EU’s customs union is necessary to keep faith with the referendum result and reap the benefits of Brexit.

If we remain in it we will accept EU laws, collect EU taxes and have a trade policy where we are without any say – a vassal state.

Outside we can get to work on increasing trade, creating jobs and opportunities and reducing the cost of food and clothing.

That the customs union is still being debated two years after the referendum does not go unnoticed in the EU.

The Prime Minister will shortly join the EU for negotiations at the June summit.

It is to be hoped that by then, Parliament will have armed her with a clear mandate to negotiate the best deal for the UK.

Westminster is suddenly alive with politicians flushed with new-found interest in customs unions and the Northern Irish border.

This interest is puzzling. Why would MPs and peers who once campaigned to stay in the EU now campaign to stay in the EU’s customs union?

I have the answer and it is quite simple – Lords and MPs who wish to vote to remain in the customs union wish to keep us in the EU.

• Jacob Rees-Mogg is Conservative MP for North East Somerset and chairman of the pro-Brexit European Research Group