Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Max,

I don't think it is only the EU who will have problems.

The ripples of stupidity will affect all of us.

Look at your own holdings today!

I don't fancy another world recession.

Trump and colleagues are unreliable and I don't think they care a damn about the "chaos" they are stimulating.

Mind, if you are shorting there maybe a bob or two in it for you.

But at the moment I think the political leadership of the majority of countries is driven by blatant self-interest.

Capitalism at its best.

Agreed Fred.

And the €U is well up that particular order.


btw, looks like Italy have found a way around the attempted brussels coup.

I think the political leadership of the majority of countries is driven by blatant self-interest.
Capitalism at its best.


hmm .... applies equally to russia and china and north korea methinks and

Here is the tory and neo-con icon for some.

No permanent friends, only permanent interests etc. No particular system just human nature.

The car tariffs have been mentioned; the EU complaining when the USA talked about raising to the same level - laughable. The interviews I saw yesterday involving EU supporters/personnel all boiled down to them being happy when the steel is dumped into the USA, not so chipper at the thought of it happening to their countries.

Rees Mogg next PM

.

Most Politicians are Voted-in by telling us saps they are interested in
promoting Female freedoms, Jobs, Industry, house-prices ( "Affordable Homes - Huh! ), the NHS and sometimes Immigration.
Yet the Public sees little evidence this ever happens . . . as others have suggested it's Me Me Me - and doing enough to get a "Safe-Seat" for the next Election ( so much grovelling to the Party-Leader needed )...
I don't really see many who are genuinely seeking to improve the State and the plight of the Public...... we are years away from the Banking Crisis... and some Banks are still money-grabbing (eg some Interest charges)..... while the off-piste "Lenders" have moved from being "pay-day" to pay for a holiday / whatever lenders at huge rates . . . . why didn't the legislators put a limit on the Total charges . . . with maybe link to the interest that Banks provide for Savers..... A ratio of 5:1 should be more than enough - IMHO..... Banking isn't Rocket Science and if they have a lien on Property / cars the "risk" is very small - ideally zippo..... since you don't lend big-money to someone that can't afford it.

As to the Referendum . . . we have second-rate Negotiators in place, sine they were not Voted-In for their Negotiating-Skills - and exactly "how" are these to be judged? You know it when you see it. I'd want N.Farage on my Team, if only to keep the Tech. Papers in Order . . . at least we wouldn't be bleating and back-sliding... would we?

Scottish Government report admits Brexit could generate £540 million and 5,000 jobs for fishing industry




Birds circle above fishing boats and trawlers as they sit moored at Lerwick Harbour in Lerwick, Shetland Islands Credit: AFP



By Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Editor
6 June 2018 • 6:00am




Brexit could generate £540 million and 5,000 jobs for the Scottish fishing industry, according to a detailed analysis published by the SNP government that concluded the UK’s extra catch would dwarf the impact of trade barriers.

A report commissioned by agency Marine Scotland found that the UK leaving the EU’s hated Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) and gaining the entire quota from its waters would increase the seafood sector’s economic output by up to 21 per cent.

Although tariffs and other trade barriers from leaving the single market would have a negative impact, these would be far outweighed by the impact of reallocating catch in British waters from foreign to Scottish vessels.



More if you sign up: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/06/scottish-government-report-admits-brexit-could-generate-540/

Negotiations going well.

I think it is time to remember Cameron.

It is good to have strong selfless leadership which we all know as part of tory culture.

good to see corbyn barely poking his head out his rat-hole and thus failing to show any leadership whatsoever


good to see that corbyn has truly inspired today's yoof and taken them with him, as his much vaunted Corbyn Glastonbury can't even give tickets away ........ just 15% were actually sold for money

Manuel,

I know that deep down your really admire Jeremy and respect him as at least one honest politician in the HP.

Also, you know deep down that with a rudderless government as we now appear to have, led by a feeble replica of a Maggie Thatcher with an inebriated out of control cabinet shows the true potential of modern conservatism.

I would think even you, as long as you did nothing would be more effective.

The country would feel safe in your hands.

but clearly you have nothing positive to say about your new messiah .... not surprising really

Do you mean yourself, Boris, or some other old fake?

Inside Theresa May's 24 hours of chaos over her Brexit customs plan - one minute at a time

Theresa May has salvaged her Brexit plans with hours to spare after crisis talks. But what's her 'customs backstop' actually about? And how did it pan out? Here are the eye-popping last 24 hours explained

From: Mirror online
By: Dan Bloom Political Reporter
15:22, 7 JUN 2018
UPDATED17:57, 7 JUN 2018

Theresa May has salvaged her Brexit customs plans with hours to spare after last-minute crisis talks with angry Tory David Davis.

The embattled Prime Minister has made a humiliating climbdown to appease her Brexit Secretary - after a string of meetings and threats to quit.

She's agreed to limit her backup plan for post-Brexit customs to one year - er, sort of - in what we in Westminster call a 'fudge'.

She was up against the clock to get it. This evening she's flying to meet Donald Trump at the G7 summit.

So it's been a day of chaos in Westminster with journalists being told opposite things within minutes of each other - or even at the same time.

We're here to guide you through the barmy 'backstop' row, how it broke out, and how it ended.

Here's your minute-by-minute explanation of the last 24 or so hours.

First, here's what this is all about
What is the Brexit customs 'backstop'? Huge Tory row explained

The EU has a customs union. This means all 28 member states can trade with each other without any checks or duties on goods.

Theresa May has said Britain will leave this after December 2020, so she can sign trade deals with non-EU countries.

But officials have warned a new UK customs system won't be ready in time. So they've devised a 'backstop' - a backup plan that will carry on some EU customs rules in the UK if there's no deal.

It is designed to stop ports grinding to a halt and Northern Ireland setting up border posts, which could lead to violence.

Yet Brexiteers were furious because it had no set end date. In a huge Tory row, they warned it would trap Britain half-in, half-out the EU.

After frantic last-minute talks, and threats to quit by Brexit Secretary David Davis, a time limit was put in - December 2021.

Yet the government only "expects" to follow that time limit. It is not legally binding. And the EU poured cold water on it.

Britain and the EU also disagree about what the backstop will do.

EU plans back in March would have kept Northern Ireland aligned with Brussels customs rules, but Theresa May rejected this because it draws a border between the province and the mainland.

So she drew up Britain's own backstop, which is now being put to the EU for discussion.

The UK plan is a "temporary customs arrangement" allowing totally tariff-free trade between the EU and the whole of the UK. So the UK would carry on being in the EU Customs Union in all but name until December 2021.

But the UK also wants to sign new trade deals with nations outside the EU. Britain even wants to implement parts of these deals that don't relate to the backstop.

Brussels has repeatedly said this won't be possible - so the new plan is setting up for a big battle with the EU.

And as time ticks on, the backstop will become less of a Plan B and more of a Plan A. It'll turn from backstop... to frontstop.

Wednesday 6 June
Lunchtime

Shock reports emerge that Theresa May has handed Cabinet ministers a paper on the backstop - and wants to publish it within one day.

Furious Brexiteers start briefing Westminster journalists that they're being 'bounced' into a decision with 'mad' speed.

They complain it has no firm time limit for when the backstop would end - leaving Britain half-in, half-out of the EU.

Reports soon emerge that the chief objector is none other than the Brexit Secretary himself - David Davis.

Wednesday 6th June
4.25pm

At a Q&A in Westminster, David Davis shocks journalists by leaving them in no doubt there are big splits and hinting he could resign.

Asked if he can stay in his job if he doesn't approve of the backstop, Mr Davis said: “That’s a question I think for the Prime Minister, to be honest.”

Wednesday 6th June
10pm

Brexiteer anger deepens as it's reported Cabinet Remainers saw the document over the weekend - days before some Brexiteers, including Boris Johnson.

A source tells the Times it is a "disgrace" and an "utter shambles".

Thursday 7 June
8.20am

A new day, a new temperature in the Brexit row (Image: Jack Taylor)
Tory ex-Brexit minister David Jones, an ally of David Davis, takes to the airwaves to row in behind battling David Davis.

He warns the backstop with no time limit would damage Britain by tying it to EU rules.

But he calls on Mr Davis to keep his job, saying losing him now would be "upsetting" and "deeply dangerous for the country".

Thursday 7 June
8.44am

David Davis is seen strolling through Parliament "smiling, tieless and carefree" on his way to a meeting with Theresa May.

Thursday 7 June
10.00am

Theresa May holds separate, face-to-face crisis talks in her Commons office with 'three Brexiteers' David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox.

The Brexit Secretary's meeting is the longest and goes on for more than an hour as the pair try to thrash out a compromise.

He leaves the door open to the possibility he could quit.

Thursday 7 June
10.27am

With the ministers still in a Vatican-style conclave, Tory Brexiteer Nadine Dorries gives undoubtedly the most helpful contribution of the day.

She tweets: "David Davis is ex SAS He’s trained to survive. He’s also trained to take people out. #Brexit"

Thursday 7 June
11.25am

White smoke!

A Downing Street spokeswoman tells us the talks were "constructive".

Asked if any of the trio of Brexiteers threatened to resign she says: "No."

Asked if she is confident Mr Davis will still be in his job by the end of the day she says: "Yes."

Government sources indicate to us that the meeting was conclusive. They say the backstop will probably be published before the meeting of the Brexit ' war cabinet ' at 12.30pm.

Thursday 7 June
11.59am

No white smoke after all!

Just when he thought he was safe to go back in the water... David Davis is called BACK in to see the Prime Minister at her behest, this time in Downing Street.

Talks were inconclusive, sources close to him say - the exact opposite of what journalists were told half an hour earlier.

Thursday 7 June
12.16pm

A source close to David Davis tells Sky News: "He's not planning to resign."

But then one minute later...

Thursday 7 June
12.17pm

An hour after the plan was supposedly agreed the threat of David Davis resigning raises its head yet again.

A 'senior government source', presumably close to David Davis, tells ITV: "DD is not a man to be bullied.

"He has demanded a clearly defined time limit to the backstop and has stated he will walk if he doesn’t get it.

"If this is a game of chicken between the PM and DD there will only be one winner."

Thursday 7 June
12.30pm

The Brexit war Cabinet meeting begins and lo and behold, the paper isn't published.

Thursday 7 June
1.08pm

After chaotic behind-the-scenes horse trading the backstop plan is finally published.

David Davis looks like he's won a victory with a date of December 2021 when the backstop should end.

But it's clear his victory may prove hollow because the government only "expects" the date to happen - there's no guarantee.

Thursday 7 June
1.47pm

EU chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier pours cold water on the plan almost immediately.

He tweets: "We will examine it with 3 questions: is it a workable solution to avoid a hard border?

"Does it respect the integrity of the single market and customs union?

"Is it an all-weather backstop?"

Thursday 7 June
1.47pm and 4 seconds

Frantic debate ensues over what on earth an "all-weather backstop" is.

Thursday 7 June
2.11pm

Now it's war between the Brexiteers in government and, er, the Brexiteers in government.

A source tells the Times: "DD claims of victory are simply delusional.

"Even Barnier is now expressing sympathy for him. It's beyond a joke now."

Thursday 7 June
3.32pm

EU Parliament Brexit chief Guy Verhofstadt down shown the backstop plan good and proper.

"A backstop that is temporary is not a backstop," he gripes.

Happy Brexit, everyone!
Just three and a half years to go...

Three and a half years to go? Blimey.

How many days is that, Dilbert?

:o)

Your new name isn't showing up on my screen, Hils.