Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Brief and shorthand.

As I guessed and point out just after the referendum, the UK will be, or possibly "Maybe" outside the "governing" bodies of the Main EU block, but still subservient to the rules and regulations and will be unable to modify them.

The UK if it leaves the EU will be serving at the table hoping for tips and a "doggie bag" to take home any unwanted left-overs.
(It won’t even be able to bark effectively.)

The EU has problems, the UK can put forward its arguments and if they are beneficial to the whole or the majority of the members of the EU would be receptive to change the rules and regulations etc.
What is this important “sovereignty” and what specifically will be the gains of such?

The UK can make whatever rules it likes, but at the end of the day in” economic matters” it is whether the standards, rules and laws are accepted by international “competitors”, or not, which will matter. (The Donald Trumps of the World.)

If the Laws, rules, regulations are “right” and “fair”, what difference will it make as which governing body made and enforces them.

I have a gut feeling some of the underlying reasons for “fear” around the EU was the impending and probable future overseeing and tightening of “Money Laundering”, which is presently current through the City of London. (Just a guess, could be wrong.)
Immigration is a problem, but immigration was a problem after WW2, and resolved by Europe as a whole, with the use of displaced person camps under EU and United Nations supervision, similar to those organised by the Allied forces and UNRRA post WW2.

It is gradually being recognised and accepted as a European and World problem, but trying to wash hands of the responsibility of resolving the problems prolongs and only magnifies the problem.

Don't fret Hils we shall be leaving next March regardless of whether Brussels likes it or not.

And they will cobble a deal together at the 11th hour that will be acceptable to us because they need our money which is dependent on a deal.

Fred we are leaving , get over it.

I thought you would be in Russia looking for other types of scraps?

Us Welsh fans prefer to watch the WC from afar as we have done every 4 years since 1958.

Dil,

You may be interested in "Europe is fast losing interest in the Brexit soap – it has bigger worries"
Andrew Rawnsley

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/17/europe-losing-interest-brexit-soap-it-has-bigger-worries

"Faced with challenges that threaten the EU’s very existence, continental leaders have little patience left for Britain’s baffling theatrics"


it is certainly far from impossible that eu is indeed starting to fall apart at the systems, for all sorts of reasons
therefore perhaps this is added reason why eu should be rather more conciliatory in its approach to to the brexit negotiations

Manuel,

It is the Little Englanders who are trying to break up the party and run off with the toys they want.

Very little reason for the remaining party goers to be bothered about them.

so you keep saying, though it's not really accurate

your preference - and it is a valid view - is that uk should have voted to stay and fought from the inside

equally valid, and one does not need to be rabid about it though a good number are, is that uk will be better off outside

if the "remaining party goers" aren't that fussed if uk leaves, then equally there is no need or point in them trying to be spiteful, as led by barnier

of course nothing in politics is ever that simple

At the moment I am not certain the game is up.

I hope that the remainers are still able to put a spoke in the wheel of a run-away driverless train.

at the outset, i said that i thought that the final result would be "little change"
we shall see

whoever and whichever party picked up the poisoined chalice post the referendum, was always going to have an exceedingly difficult task, to put it mildly

Yes, another election which the losers won't be too sad at losing.

how cynical :-)
for all that, it's a situation that needs to be resolved, though it is inevitable that a very large % if not all of the population will be unhappy with the outcome

Perhaps, if she didn't point the finger so much, more would believe her, but she does seem to be developing Trumpism!

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-lords/mays-brexit-plans-set-for-defeat-teeing-up-wednesday-showdown-idUKKBN1JD12Y#

(Copied from TRAD thread.)

hush now

i was purposely avoiding party politics ........
though the tories may or may not have handled this very difficult situation particularly well, on their performance to date, i do not think the other lot would have been any better

Satellites - don't put them up, shoot them down.

Oh dear, Dilbert. Next year's fortnight in Benidorm is looking a bit iffy.

Might be an idea to hold off buying your new mankini for a bit....

:o)

Manuel.

Difficult to leave our politics when we have a government and a leader telling so many porkies every day.

But I suppose it is a matter of taste.

oh dear oh dear .... you really are incapable of being other than a party-flag waver
you wreck the point of any discussion every time by your nonsense

Yes, Matron.

Lol hils , another example of the EU shooting itself in the foot if it were true but do you really think Lufthansa etc rang Barmy Barny to ask permission to make plans ?