Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

30 is lovely, though i'ld tolerate 25/27 ...... at 30 mthe grandchildren can then stay in it for a long time - and i don't mean with lead weights round their ankles

30 is still a fair bit colder than the Arabian Gulf

Hils,

Your description fits something else washup on beaches.

The ideal temperature for an outside pool is 27c......

27C is utterly perfect for me, too.

Not if you are fishing!

Is that an EU regulation Fred. Don't worry we can tell them to shove it soon and you can fish til your hearts content.

Perfect description of the average Portuguese Hilary. Do they come to life again on the evening tide? They make good waiters at dinner.

It's a swimming pool temperature.....four star hotels try to maintain the pools at that temperature....

Even 5 star perhaps. There are regulations regarding the temperature of the water for swimming events and it is in the range you like. I prefer the water cooler particularly with the weather we have been having. I go in to cool down, not warm up and I don't feel any discomfort whatsoever. It's about the same as the sea temperature on the Algarve in August. Great.

Dil,

Post 9148

You appear very light!

-=-=--=-=

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

-=-=-=
The glories of the past.

But, possibly it will not be your hide that will suffer.

Posted up across the road by GYY, no link

GYY
4 Jul '18 - 10:50 - 225644 of 225649
0   0  0



Busting the Remain-inspired myths about trade on WTO terms

Written by
Professor David Collins

Professor of International Economic Law at City, University of London and author of Negotiating Brexit: The Legal Basis for EU and Global Trade.



Among the most vividly distressing of the post-Brexit images we have been exposed to by the Remain-dominated media is that of the mile-long queue of lorries at Dover, effectively shut out from the EU’s market because of its incompatible regulations and time-consuming inspections. That British products will somehow be subjected to a battery of new rules and tests on Brexit Day, delaying or even prohibiting their entry into the EU, ignores the rights the UK is entitled to as a member of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), which it will re-join as an independent member following its departure from the EU next year. The EU is also a member of the WTO, as are most countries in the world, meaning that it is bound by the WTO’s rules. Several of these render the infamous lorry-queue scenario highly implausible. First, the WTO’s Agreement on Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures (SPS), dealing with food-related products, provides that WTO Members must ensure that regulations and inspection procedures must be applied only to the extent necessary to protect health and cannot be maintained without sufficient scientific evidence. If there is no risk from British foods today while we are still in the EU, then there is no risk the day after we leave, as long as the products themselves do not change. Furthermore, WTO Members must ensure that their food regulations do not arbitrarily or unjustifiably discriminate between Members where identical or similar conditions prevail, including between their own territory and that of other Members. Since the UK does not intend to implement a wholesale change to its regulatory standards immediately after Brexit, the EU cannot treat products from the UK differently than they did before Brexit. Second, with regards to safety standards for all other types of goods – like furniture or kettles – the WTO’s Technical Barriers to Trade (TBT) Agreement likewise states that technical regulations shall not be more trade-restrictive than necessary to fulfil a legitimate objective, such as consumer safety, taking account of the risks non-fulfilment would create. Moreover, conformity assessment procedures should not be prepared, adopted or applied with a view to or with the effect of creating unnecessary obstacles to international trade. This means that product safety testing procedures cannot be more burdensome or be applied more strictly than is necessary to give the importing Member adequate confidence that products conform with the applicable technical regulations or standards. This means that the EU cannot impose regulatory barriers on UK goods without justification after Brexit as long as product and safety standards between the two jurisdictions remain aligned. If the UK seeks to modify its own regulatory procedures regarding health and safety of products going forward – perhaps with a view to eliminating some of the laws that have made the EU uncompetitive – the EU may at that point be entitled to request additional testing or inspection at the border. However, the TBT Agreement provides that under such circumstances, WTO Members shall give positive consideration to accepting as equivalent technical regulations of other Members, even if these regulations differ from their own, provided they are satisfied that these regulations adequately fulfil the objectives of their own regulations. In other words, a potential new UK regulatory scheme would effectively need to ignore consumer safety in order for any additional testing procedures at the EU border to be allowed under WTO law. It is unlikely that this will occur in the near future, if ever. Even if it were to happen, such conformity assessment procedures would still need to be no more burdensome than necessary. Lastly, on the formalities of customs procedures at the border, the WTO’s General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) recognises the need for minimising the incidence and complexity of import and export formalities (for both tariff and non-tariff barriers) and for decreasing and simplifying import and export documentation requirements. This is further enshrined in the new Trade Facilitation Agreement, which obliges WTO members to minimise customs formalities through technology, including many of the features discussed in relation to the maximum facilitation strategy for the Northern Ireland frontier. The new UK-EU border must adhere to this high standard of frictionless transit precisely for the purpose of avoiding long delays caused by needless red tape of the kind we have been told to fear. Contrary to what many doomsayers may wish the public to believe, UK goods will not suddenly become hazardous to the health and safety of EU consumers the day after Brexit. There is no way that the EU could get away with placing additional arbitrary restrictions on goods imported from the UK after Brexit, either with respect to the content of the regulations, the testing procedures or customs formalities. New UK-EU non-tariff barriers would be illegal under WTO rules immediately after exit, even in a no-deal scenario. Were the EU to impose such barriers anyway – possibly with an agenda of punishing the UK for daring to leave or to give their own suppliers an unfair advantage – the UK would be able to bring a claim against the EU through the WTO dispute settlement procedure, which it would almost certainly win. It is worth adding that the WTO courts are far from toothless, as is sometimes suggested, enjoying an excellent compliance record among its many hundred rulings over decades of practice. Winning a case before the WTO forces the losing country to remove the illegal measure, which the EU would be expected to do promptly or else suffer retaliation in the form of tariffs on its goods, along with the acrimony of the rest of the world.

Thanks for your article, MaxK.

It's a bit more readable with better presentation of the grammar and all in its originality too, at:

https://brexitcentral.com/busting-remain-inspired-myths-trade-wto-terms/

Yes, it is a bit of a eyeful as posted. But I didn't have the link, and I was in a bit of a hurry.

Thanks for posting the link, it's something else for Fred and fellow travellers to avoid.

Does that mean trading into the Eu will be under the same rules and regulations as those expected by the EU at the moment and the future?

I see Theresa has put together a good con artist's deal to satisfy her tory party fellow travelers.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44719576

Whoopee.

What has been the cost of dreaming up the Brexiters' dreams?

.

From your link Fred.

Now why am I having trouble believing what comes out of Treeza's mouth?



In an attempt to address concerns, Mrs May said at Prime Minister's Questions the government would ensure "we are out of the customs union, that we are out of the single market, that we are out of the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, we are out of the Common Agricultural Policy, we are out of the Common Fisheries Policy, we bring an end to free movement, we take control of our borders, we have an independent trade policy".


It all sounds good, but there has to be a few hidden caveats hiding in the detail.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ..... as i suspect will happen and as i predicted when the referendum result came out

Ça marche, ça marche.

Et pour Dilbert - https://www.upr.fr/.