Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Cypriot divers armed with sensors and infrared gear began exploring the Cypriot-flagged Iranian arms ship docked at Limassol on orders from the UN Security Council Sanctions Committee. The Cypriot official said sending the shipment back is not an "available option." This would be the first time an Iranian arms ship has been detained and its freight confiscated.

US and British marine experts have joined the search of the vessel.

Friday night, the UN sanctions committee concluded in a special session in New York that the consignment violated UN Security Council Resolution 1747 banning Iranian exports. It acted on a report from Cyprus that initial searches of the concealed parts of the ship had turned up different types of rockets believed destined for Hamas. Half the 60 containers have been examined.



To get back to the subject.........UK media have ignored the above completely, just as they have ignored the UN report saying that UN school was NOT shelled by Israel and there were no casualties in that school - totally the opposite of the first "reports" !

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/13/hamas-gaza-murders-abduction-torture

does one trust the guardian any more than say telegraph or bbc? ...... a rhetorical question only

ExecLine - "And as we all know, Iran is potentially top of the list for being one of those."

Err - is that the same as we knew that Iraq had the potential to release a Weapon of Mass Destruction within 45 minutes? And that Saddam Hussein was hiding WMDs somewhere in Iraq? And that the whole of Iraq would rejoice when he was overthrown?

Experience (66 years unfortunately) has shown me that of all lies perpetrated, the biggest are ALWAYS pedalled by governments. And desperate governments tell the biggest lies. Of course the law of averages says that some statements by governments are true...probably unintentionally so!

There may be some sense in the Israeli leadership.

From Weekend FT

Ms Livni
When she entered politics in 1996, she turned to her natural political home, the rightwing, nationalist Likud party. It was the party of Ariel Sharon, Israel's military and political strongman, who rewarded her talents with a series of ministerial posts. No one knows what caused her and other Likud leaders to re-examine their core beliefs. But, over the past decade, Ms Livni realised that her dream of a Jewish state covering all of historic Palestine was turning into a nightmare. She recognised that Israel could survive as a Jewish and democratic state only if it pulled back from the occupied Palestinian territories and allowed some form of Palestinian state. That re-- alisation led to Mr Sharon's creation of the Kadima party in 2005.
The need to draw Israel's final borders quickly has become the driving force behind her ambition. She has, some say, the zeal of the convert. "Tzipi believes in the two-state solution much more than anyone who grew up in a leftwing home," says an official who works with her. "It is like someone who has taken on the Catholic faith." Though she has given up the dream of "Greater Israel", Ms Livni "doesn't feel she is rejecting her parents' heritage. In her mind, she is finding ways to realise that dream, not rejecting it," one person who knows her well says.

Any signs of some sense in Hamas leadership though?

Isaacs,

For various reasons, I tend to listen to BBC World Service at night. I think that much of their reporting and evaluation of events, when they are allowed to witness them, is generally fair and evenly balanced

From listening to their reports and from other sources, it would appear to me that there are members of Hamas and Fatah, who wish to negotiate with one another, as well as Israeli leaders.

I think the far right of Israel leadership are mistaken, if they feel that they can rely on American support in any future military actions it wishes to undertake.

To attack Iran, would be difficult without the support in of Americans. I cannot foresee them allowing Israels warplanes to fly over of Iraq. The problem of a circular route to bomb and return to Israel would make it difficult. It would also tread on a lot of countries toes and in the longterm would not be gainful.

Also, I think that with the American Economy as it is and its need for world cooperation, I cant see the will to support Israel other than to help in a peaceful resolution of the Middle East problems.

Also, I can see reluctance by America to continue to subsidise, replace or renew the Israeli armoury. Also there may be a reluctance to subsidise the Israeli economy as they have done in the past.

America are militarily overstretched and the cost (financially and body count) of the War in Iraq and Afghanistan is coming home to them. The American public and International community wants a reasonable and resolution of the Middle East.

The Zionist lobby in America now longer has the financial clout and influence that it had on the various previous administrations, due to the way in which Obama raised and continues to raise political funds.

Also, with the degree of debt America has at present and the amount of dollars held by various Middle East, China and Asian governments, America is not the force it use to be.

========================


Anyway, have a look at this as well. For me it was interesting and gives a slightly different slant Egypts position and possibly future problems. But, if you do, listen to the complete broadcast.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00hd4nh/File_on_4_10_02_2009/

Also take a peep at this.

.
Gaza to export Valentine's blooms

Israel has granted permission for 25,000 flowers from the Gaza Strip to be sent to Europe for Valentine's Day.
The flowers will be Gaza's first exports for a year, as Israel has intensified its blockade of the strip since Hamas took control in June 2007.
The blockade allows in aid but exports are banned with few exceptions.
The move was made, after a request by the Dutch government and Gaza farmers. Israel says this does not mean any overall change of policy.
Israeli military spokesman Maj Peter Lerner said the flowers would leave Gaza through an Israeli cargo crossing and were due to reach the European market by Valentine's Day on Saturday.
Income
The 25,000 carnations allowed out this time are a fraction of what farmers produce and many say they have no choice but to feed the crop to sheep.
Although many of the Gaza Strip's 1.5 million residents do not celebrate Valentine's Day, viewing it as a Western and Christian holiday, some shops in Gaza do sell red flowers and heart-shaped gifts.
Etc.

Still not prepared to think badly of Hamas, Fred. Even though they have just committed small scale genocide to ensure they don't lose to much grip on power. Its a very interesting, if a little warped, way you have of seeing things.

raw - some minds are like concrete - thoroughly mixed and permanently set.

Fred - thanks for the long post but I only asked about Hamas. Let me know when you've looked at the Hamas video in post 821 and I'll have a look at yours ;)

LOL Gausie

Raw, If you think Hamas is committing genocide, Compare it with the recent murdering of Palestinians by Israel in Gaza.

I am sorry, that was just collateral damage. LOL

Isaacs, have a listen to the spiel of spiel of the Zionist Orthodox Rabbi!

Similar to both sides.

both sides in this conflict are pretty disgusting in their own ways ..... however, yesterday on the way up to london, i passed a couple of transits with "pro palestinian" or "free gaza" placards ..... i seriously longed to pull them over to ask if they had voted for Fatah or Hamas .... or even if they were just part of renta-crowd

Fred, collateral damage happens in war. If hamas hadn't been lobbing missile into Israel there wouldn't have been any. Do we have a breakdown of confirmed 'collateral' damage yet? I doubt it.

Rounding up your own countrymen/women/children because they 'might' be allianced with a different political party and then executing them in cold blood is evil, just like the childrens tv programme.

As i've said before, I have nothing to gain by debating this with you except BALANCED debate. I can see it from both sides which you plainly cannot.

That would have been an interesting survey cynic.

especially if i told them i was jewish!

LOL, balls of carbide steel required!

Cynic - surely they'd be able to tell from the hook nose and the horns?

perhaps more likely from the fizzing circular sphere that i was preparing to throw at them - though i suppose that would be deemed to be an over-reaction - lol!

Yes disproportionate.

that was the word .... i couldn't remember - lol!