A thread for all those who wish to discuss GOLD - the investment of and related discussions that can effect GOLD as an investment or simply how to invest in it. All welcome from other websites.

Lol

Was looking up something else
- but for any non former advfn'ers..... might be worth a read of the following which I posted in - the other place.

Why is it interesting ?

The hasty, rushed Cyprus - Bail in - saver snatch
- with added delayed access (moratorium) to saver funds....and bonus conversion of saver funds to shares
- with early EU official denials ....it was ...then was not a ....template

The link proves - it was not a ...hasty solution AND IS - A TEMPLATE

The link is from the Financial Stability Board - A ....TEMPLATE
- published....not in 2013 after Cyprus... or even just before Cyprus
- not even published way back in the last 15 MONTHS ie anywhere through 2012

But published ......way, way back in.....2011

http://www.financialstabilityboard.org/Template to rob the sheeple/r_111104cc.pdf

Zey 'ave a plan, an' zey 'ave 'ad it for ...a very long time !

If you are interested - in the .....really big picture

- and remember this is not - from some blog or paid subscription writer

- this is from - those who update/advise/instruct
- THE G 20 group

http://www.financialstabilityboard.org/publications/r_130419b.pdf

It sets out - progress on.... international progress
- in implementing
- GLOBAL........ "cyprus template"....bail ins
- cross borders
- re "THE to big to fail" - failing

Not only - in banking, but...insurance, financial markets etc etc

http://www.financialstabilityboard.org/publications/r_130419b.pdf

I personally don't think - they are just adhering to boy scout motto of -.... being prepared.

(must check if the boy scouts do - a "bail in" badge....would look nice with my 25m swimming badge)

Gaz - I haven't bothered with insurance for more than half my life. In my view they are worse than bankers.

I think capital controls will be the way forward.

Today there's talk of splitting government owned RBS where savers will be ring fenced & protected. The bad loans will be put into a bad bank where they can be dealt with. The good bank backed by savers will be able to make loans but I would hope they would be tightly controlled. Also savers should be rewarded with higher rates.

The bad bank should be able to seize assets.

It's a start. Good that bankers bonuses won't be paid for 10 years.

The public will is winning through but I won't be letting go of my PMs as policy change can happen anytime.

Bernie Big speaking later - I wonder what he's got hidden in his beard.

Squirrel
- re the good bank - bad bank scenario
- one day will get round to looking into how they make the balance sheets balance

All the savers money (bar say a 5% float) has gone, isn't there
(lent out in fractional reserve lending - to the borrowers - good and bad)

- so
a) - if you took all the savers only - to a good bank
- they are liabilities of the bank in their balance sheet
- so you have a bank with liabilities -....and no assets
- 100% insolvent

b) - If you (for arguments sake - assume all the mortgages/loans were bad - or a big enough proportion ie the ....assets on a bank balance sheet)
- & take those bad assets to - a bad bank
- the good bank - is left with - the savers (liabilities on the bank balance sheet)
- and again Nil assets or most likely drastically reduced remaining - good mortgage/loan assets left over
- likely insolvent again.

That's why in Cyprus - say - the balance sheet was say - book value £100
- when the bad loans/mortgages (assets) were stripped out - say £80
- they only has £20 worth of assets left.

Hence to make the books balance - they had to get liabilities down to £20

Wipe out the shareholders (banks liability)
- wipe out lesser bond holders (banks liability)
- 'mmm still not down to £20
- wipe out X% of uninsured - savers deposits (bank liability)
- etc
- lovely now down to £20

So how to make the books balance - steal the punters shareholder money - steal the punters bondmoney - steal most of the punters uninsured deposits.

Good Bank/Bad Bank - a good idea - for the punters ?

Re the good bank - backed by the savers ?
- the savers money - has already gone via fractional reserve - to the borrowers
- and the borrowers .(the bank assets)...went to - the bad bank
- so the good bank is left backed by........

As I say - one day I will get round to checking out the actual mechanics
- so don't rip into my thoughts apart too much
- they are just off the cuff thoughts on good bank/bad bank.....whilst cutting my grass :o)

Yours or anyone elses thoughts - on how they would balance the RBS/Natwest books welcome.

I recollect the Irish had to rope in the punters old age retirement pension fund - to back their bad bank........any volunterrs on stumping up their share here...on that one.

When they hived off N/Rocks - bad loans - they made the remaining good N/Rock bank books balance by - pumping in taxpayer cash - anybody fancy a tax hike to pay for that method.

The books must balance - and generally the sheeple end up paying for it...one way or another - indirectly thro' tax - or directly....the Cyprus way

The dominoes are starting to wobble - fed member
- questions Deutche bank solvency
- jim willie claims.... Barclays on the ropes

Anybody else remember

http://www.arabnews.com/barclays-boss-forgoes-bonus-qatar-deal-probed

The Financial Times reported that British authorities are looking into an allegation that
- Barclays
- lent Qatar money to invest in it
(as part of a rescue fundraising at the height of the 2008 financial crisis).

UK rules forbid a public company from giving financial assistance in order to acquire its shares or those of a parent company.

A Barclays spokeswoman said:
- “Both the FSA and SFO investigations are ongoing and,
as such, we are unable to comment further.”
- The FSA, SFO and Qatar Holding declined to comment.

And the outcome was..........?

If you are in trouble - and you write a cheque to someone - to give back to you
- net result....you are - still in trouble.

Co - op result of getting the "tap on the shoulder" - to pick up/bail out Brittania (Bogged down with around 25% MBS/Liar loan mortgages)

Lloyds got the "tap" re halifax...

And of course RBS/NatWest - never recovered from picking up - ABN-Amro's - big, big black hole.

Barclays only just ducked out of picking up....Lehman Bros.

Funny old game, if you are a Bankster - the punters/taxpayers are happy with MS T.V. tho'

(like in Greece - you can rob them blind - but the prime minister has been forced by public outcry - to........restore their national TV....recently switched off re austerity cuts :o)

You do realise that ICAP, like other IDB's , is a different business to banks right? It's the banks that are Icap's customers, not the general public.

"I rest my case."

And your case viz Icap was what exactly? Other than they're destroying AIM, for which you provided no evidence at all.

"I figure Icap are in deep do do."

Liquidity and thus commissions are down in some product areas, yes,but the online electronic systems are churning out money (without the need for expensive voice broking)

Whilst FY results, announced on 14th May weren't brilliant, they certainly were not the harbinger of Icap being in deep do do as you claim.

Operating profit1 308 372 (17)
Profit before tax1 284 354 (20)
PBT (statutory)2 66 217 (70)
EPS (adjusted basic) 3 33p 40.1p (18)
Ongoing free cash flow was £274m

They've just signed a large revolving credit facitlity.

Hence them stealing an RIE. For sure they & agents are behind the attempted destruction of AIM. Just like PLUS.

I'm not up to speed with this RIE theft and their destruction of AIM. Equities,as a business segment at ICAP, was not one I was aware of as I was under the impression they dealt primarily with money market instruments - namely FRA's, IRS,and Bonds/Bond options and other derivatives. Their equity exposure was via Equity options, and these most certainly would not have involved AIM stocks. They also pulled out of their Equity sales business last year (and this most certainly would not have been AIM stocks either)

Perhaps you could elaborate on your claim that ICAP is stealing a RIE, and that they're agents behind the destruction of AIM. Other than , of course, conspiratorial clap trap arising from your personal interpretation of the financial sector's antics.

FYG I'm Invested in Icap/TLPR so i know a large part of their businesses quite well. Every Inter Dealer broker however is different at the margins.

"Only AIM is & always has been a brand."

Aim is a pile of unregulated dross with far less stringent reporting requirements.

"So much for cameroons SMEs salvage operation. More like one for the boys club.. Do some research omce - get enlightened."

Now you're just talking absolute rot. I expected more of you frankly.

As it happens I've done plenty of research, in addition to working in the Financial services industry for 15 years, in Derivatives. So I suspect the only person needing to do some homework here in the search of enlightenment is yourself as you clearly have serious gaps in your knowledge!

"I'd say a small percentage of miners (juniors) will see the other side of this. If they're already listed with ISDX then lets see what happens."

I suspect it will be more than people expect, but fewer than we'd hope for. Aim is a busted market. Too many dubious characters , with no experience, set up companies and milk investors dry with little to show. Fair bet that many will never return to AIM.

"Personally I think it's shameful to destroy AIM - it's always been a part of the City. Shame on Michael for the greed. SMEs aren't wanted by cameroon & his non tax paying corporates.Have a think about it."

It's got bugger all to do with Spencer's greed. And you're just reaching with your claim that Cameroon doesn't like or want SME's.

You seem to have a beef with Cameron - I'm guessing you're not a Conservative voter and that's colouring any conclusion your draw vis the City and any Cameron involvement.

I presume both you,and your hubby are still paying UK national insurance whilst you're overseas enjoying earning in a low tax environment and enjoying the expat lifestyle?? (It's called Class 3 btw - I know because I paid it when working in Asia.)

Omce - probably best to read PMK bb thread on the other site. I WAS Pmk investor. Icap got our RIE extremely cheap. We voted against. Take a look at Icaps ISDX.

Theres no conspiracy. Sorry to hear you're invested in Icap - their sp has suffered also. Don't be fooled by Spencer. He's a tory rat.

The AIM destruction - a video was put out warning investors that after Pmk was lost "they" would go after AIM.

You're pretty defensive so I'd deduce you know alot more.

Icap in cahoots with banks - I rest my case.

Gold - bullion banks positioning to go long PMs.

Be careful out there.

"probably best to read PMK bb thread on the other site. I WAS Pmk investor. Icap got our RIE extremely cheap. We voted against. Take a look at Icaps ISDX."

Sorry but I can't be arsed to trawl through loads of conspiracy bullshit - I get enough of that on the GKP board. Please give me adetailed precis of why you think ICAP are going after AIM and how they are in it, as you claim, with the banks....

"Theres no conspiracy. Sorry to hear you're invested in Icap - their sp has suffered also. Don't be fooled by Spencer. He's a tory rat."

Oh dear oh dear, now you've your true colours. Guess you're a Guardian reader then from that statement.

I've made very good money in Icap over the years fyg.

As to your "Spencer,don't be fooled, he is a Tory rat" clearly you're a LibDem/Labour voter with biased opinions on the matter.

Having read your many of your comments on AGQ over the last two years you clearly are overwhelmed by conspiracy theories...most of which I can assure you are utterly wrong.

"The AIM destruction - a video was put out warning investors that after Pmk was lost "they" would go after AIM. Icap in cahoots with banks - I rest my case."

You haven't made a case though - so far you've just hypothesised with no factual evidence provided. Link to the video? Precis of this Pmk loss and ICap going after Aim?

You're pretty defensive so I'd deduce you know alot more.

Just realistic. And it's clear I know alot more than you with your BB conspiracy theories which are frankly laughable.


I also notice you didn't answer my question as to whether you'd be paying National Insurance still whilst working, as an expat, overseas in a low tax country. Most "Tory rats" do in fact still pay their NI(Class 3) despite not being obliged to. Seems those on the Left who hate the Conservatives so much don't have any principles!!!!!!!!

So do you pay your National insurance whilst enjoying your low tax expat life? As we all know you'll be using UK services going forward (eg NHS Tourism) despite not paying anything for the next few years....

Omce - its a huge subject & not possible to put on this thread. Read about 2 years worth of posts on pmk to get a full understanding of what went on. Large shareholders there are STILL there & now involved with PLMO - we kept our listing & changed names.

Investigations are ongoing.

There are no conspiracies. Just facts & some very dubious characters & alot of disgruntled valid shareholders. We voted on several issues & won. However the pmk thread will fill in much of the info.

Now - this is the gold thread & you are getting a tad aggresive so if you don't mind either tone it down with me or I won't discuss anything with you, which would be a shame.

I won't be bullied or intimidated.

PS - Not that it's any of your business our NI is being paid in full by dd. We have also done our P85 forms. We have also already paid 30 years of paye in the UK. On top of that neither of us have been to hospital or abused the nhs. Nor have either of us claimed any benefits - EVER..

I don't vote. Labour/Lib/Tory - makes no difference to me. They're all in it for themselves.

Refrain from being so aggresive with me Omce. Ty.

Now - this is the gold thread & you are getting a tad aggresive so if you don't mind either tone it down with me or I won't discuss anything with you, which would be a shame.

I'm sorry you believe I was being aggressive and trying to intimidate. I most certainly wasn't. Firm and factual, and avoiding any partisanship despite working in the financial services industry,at the front end,and, at one point, for a competitor or two of the IDB you complain about yes. I certainly wasn't being patronising however, unlike some of your responses but I chose not to make a point in that regard.

I won't be bullied or intimidated.

No one is trying to bully or intimidate you.I suspect however that this is a line you use with anyone who's opinions you disagree with. Frankel being a prime example. And I think you do yourself a disservice in his regard.

PS - Not that it's any of your business our NI is being paid in full by dd. We have also done our P85 forms. We have also already paid 30 years of paye in the UK. On top of that neither of us have been to hospital or abused the nhs. Nor have either of us claimed any benefits - EVER..

Well you make a big thing of Spencer being a Tory rat, and it's not unreasonable to assume that you frown on such"abuse of privilege & non adherence to one's obligations", as do many of a left wing political bent. I wanted to check because it amazing how hypocritical many self righteous Left wingers are!!!!

I don't vote. Labour/Lib/Tory - makes no difference to me. They're all in it for themselves.

I wholeheartedly agree with the above. That's why, for the last two years, I've voted UKIP - time for a change of the political establishment imo. New blood. New way of doing things. New priorities.

Omce - you make alot of assumptions about me.

Financial background myself.

I'll say no more than that.

Everyone makes assumptions Squirrel. In fact you did similar about me.

It's how we try to unravel the motivations behind people's opinion's on certain topics particularly when they reveal a certain political bent - eg Spencer,a Tory Rat. Making assumptions about Cameron's opinions of SME's etc etc.

This may be of interest - the link was posted over the road - Bernanke Slams Gold: Why The Smart Money Is Bullish

Omce - we possibly have more in common than you might wish..

As for political slant - it's a dangerous trap - then you end up buying the same newspaper everyday then you end up with stockholme syndrome.

Ukip may get my vote but I'm a little concerned about the "racist" card - whether Nigel is playing that card for the muslim haters I don't know. It's only ever about the number of votes - ever.

I read all spectrums of info - the accepted establishment info aswell as the none msm narratives. It's good to get a wider view and then use ones own filter mechanisms. What I won't tolerate are repeatedly unfounded commentary that only seeks to do damage. Therein lays your agendas.

When you hurt me - you hurt yourself more. Sit on that phrase for just a while.

I'm an investor. I believe with a growing global population everything will become more expensive as demand rises & supplies diminish or become more difficult to source. I don't think the world will end nor do I believe we will be put through another 1930 depression - far far more people would die than did back in the 30s.

I think many equities will see higher highs, that gold & silver will go sky high. I also think at least one power house (something in the finance sector) will fail - badly.

I majoured Economics & Maths & worked in the City which as a woman was a tough call but I climbed the ladder & did 12 hour days.

I remember it was a woman who said 2008 crash would happen & I was fortunate enough to meet her through a friend. No names on here.

But also like Gaz I did woodwork & metalwork at school - made a magazine rack & a screwdriver. :-o

What should we do about the planned devaluation of the £?
What should we do about getting more affoirdable energy to every household in the UK?

Gold bounced already & now bloomers are discussing coffee!

Skinny - good link. Shall we share it on the other site?

I posted the full article over there.

Keep it coming. We have actually bounced and the silence from the msm is......deafening.

Its from a thread over there.

ok - well done. Trying to share info on both sites - to keep it fair. It's just the links don't work over there - really annoying but it's their new policy.

Much more interesting when you can embed videos, share charts and have links to a variety of opinion.

Yes - I'm sure they have their (commercial) reasons!

Skinny - it's a shame really. Could lose posters who contribute a lot. Reasoned and intelligent commentary is much needed everywhere.