Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Perhaps the Israelis are stockpiling Hamas with weapons to keep them going!

I give up, Fred - limned has stretched my linguistic capacities, aptly or otherwise.

peasant oh lickable one (whether choc or marmite!) ..... limned is actually to illustrate (as in illuminate a manuscript), but also to describe .... somewhat arcane to archaic!

Peasant with limited grey cells this afternoon :)

rat-arsed again?

I know a new word, I know a new word :)

Edit: nope :P
Ooh edit again: vielen Dank Liebchen ;)

de rien!

Is the present Israeli government made up of gangsters?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE51G1VF20090217?feedType=nl&feedName=uktopnewsearly

Not gangsters, Fred, intelligence operatives. We all do it.

I suppose Hamas is made up of kindly old gentlemen whose only concern is the welfare of the poor Palestinians.

For God's sake Fred, grow up, what do you expect the Israelis to do about a country that has vowed to wipe them off the face of the Earth and is openly setting about acquiring the means to do it.

Have a read of Bariness Deach speech made in the House of Lords on feb 6th see below:


>
>
> Baroness Deech (Crossbench) | Hansard source
>
> My Lord, I recently heard a speech by President Peres of
> Israel. He
> said that if we look back 50 years, who would have imagined
> then that
> the Soviet Empire would have ended, that the South African
> system of
> apartheid would have been dismantled and Mandela would have
> become
> president, that the Berlin Wall would have come down and
> that there
> would be a black president of America? He said that we
> should look
> forward 50 years from now in the same spirit. I want to
> start on that
> optimistic note because I believe that if we wait that
> long*no doubt
> beyond our lifetimes*there will be change for the better. I
> want to
> emphasise that because inevitably much of my speech will be
> rather
> gloomy.
>
> No one can accuse this House of not focusing on the
> distressing
> situation in Gaza. In the past 12 months, there have been
> 161 Questions
> and Statements about Israel, Gaza and the Palestinians
> compared with,
> for example, 33 on Sri Lanka and 24 on Tibet. I mention
> Sri Lanka
> in particular because noble Lords will be aware that
> recently there was
> a well attended protest in Parliament Square about the
> terrible
> attacks on the Tamils, the hospitals under siege, the
> killing of 70,000
> people and the many more thousands who are trapped and
> displaced from
> their homes. This has attracted little opprobrium and no
> calls for the
> obliteration of Sri Lanka or talk of its brutalisation.
>
> I raise that because I am interested in the particular
> focus on the
> Middle East that is expressed in this country. Part of the
> reason is
> that the war in Gaza has not been seen in perspective, but
> only as a
> minute fragment of what is, in truth, a larger picture.
> There is a
> wider war, of which Israel and Gaza are figureheads, and
> there is
> also a civil war. The talk about what is proportionate*I
> prefer the
> word "necessary"*has to be seen in the context
> of a response to an
> attack from Hamas designed not just to launch rockets at
> Israel*5,000
> rockets deliberately aimed at Israeli civilians and
> schoolchildren at
> 7.45 in the morning*but to end the state of Israel.
>
> Hamas has vowed to have an Islamic state over Gaza, the
> West Bank
> and Israel as part of a wider Islamic empire. Israel has
> a 20 per cent
> Arab population, but not one Jew is to be allowed to live
> in this
> Islamic state. We can well imagine the fate planned for
> the millions of
> Israelis were this to come about. The response from Israel
> was, if
> anything, as restrained as it possibly could be. We should
> recall the
> detailed precautions taken by the Israeli army to avoid
> wherever
> possible harm to civilians, bearing in mind the use of
> mosques, schools
> and hospitals, as has been referred to earlier today.
>
> The charges of "disproportionate" were not
> made in relation to other
> wars that we have recently experienced; Kosovo, Georgia,
> Iraq or even
> Afghanistan, where people have died in their thousands. In
> fact, there
> has been some praise for the restraint that Israel has
> shown in trying
> to avoid civilian casualties. There is also a civil war in
> Gaza, which
> makes the prospects of peace unrealistic. The military
> dictatorship
> there did nothing to protect its own subjects, but took the
> opportunity
> of war to eliminate many of its Fatah political opponents.
> Other noble
> Lords have referred to the very cruel details of this.
> Even the
> Palestinian Authority's President Abbas said:
>
> "Hamas has taken risks with the blood of
> Palestinians, with their
> fate and dreams and aspirations for an independent
> Palestinian state".
>
> The wider war is one of destruction of Israel, and those
> who
> criticise Israel's attack on Gaza must realise that
> they are
> unwittingly giving succour to that plan.
>
> Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and Hamas all share that
> same aim of
> destroying Israel entirely and, indeed, Hamas has thanked
> Iran for its
> support in the Gaza war. As others have mentioned, the
> result has been
> that Jews all over the world have suffered for this. The
> attacks on
> Jews that have taken place here in the UK and elsewhere
> illustrate my
> theme of a wider war. It is Jews and synagogues in London
> and
> Venezuela, in universities, to their shame, and streets,
> that are
> attacked, with Gaza as the excuse, not Israelis. It is
> not Jews who
> see all criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism; it is some
> of the
> critics of Israel who vent their displeasure on Jews in
> general. The
> hatred of Israel, and sometimes Jews, is almost unique in
> international politics.
>
> Then there is the propaganda war. I urge noble Lords not
> to believe
> all that they read in the newspapers about damage and
> killings in Gaza.
> We do not have the evidence. I cite just one case. The
> tragic killing
> of the three daughters of the respected Gazan doctor
> Izzeldin Abuelaish
> now seems to have been by Gazan rockets, not Israeli fire,
> according to
> the post-mortem examination of the fragments of their
> bodies.
>
> On the humanitarian front, of course, it is exacerbated,
> because
> Hamas wanted civilian deaths to increase its worldwide
> exposure and
> sympathy. Humanitarian aid is another area where the wrong
> and
> pessimistic view has been taken. I noted with interest and
> approval
> that the BBC refused to screen the advertisement for aid
> and that it
> was backed by its own NUJ branch of journalists. It is not
> so good to
> hear talk of a Zionist lobby and Jews mugging protests and
> stemming
> disquiet in the United States, when you consider the very
> small
> numbers that there are. The United Nations Relief and
> Works Agency has
> a huge budget. We do not yet know what happened to the
> millions that
> Arafat salted away and took to his death. We note the
> failure of other
> Arab countries to come to the aid of their brothers. The
> oil revenue of
> the Gulf states in 2008 was $562 billion; in Saudi Arabia
> it was $260
> billion*one day's oil revenue would work a miracle for
> the West Bank
> and Gaza, but this is not forthcoming.
>
> On the humanitarian front, Israel's Supreme Court in
> the past few
> days, a court known for its robustness, has examined the
> application of
> the Geneva conventions on humanitarian law and found them
> not to have
> been breached. Other Arab countries have not only not
> helped but have
> literally turned their backs on the Palestinians, as one
> can read
> regarding Syria in the report in the Times today.
>
> What of the future? Gaza could have had a future. Every
> Israeli
> soldier and civilian was removed from there. Everything
> was ready for
> the Gazans a few years ago to start a new period of
> economic
> development. There was no blockade, and it remains true
> that Egypt
> could open its crossing if it wanted to. It does not, of
> course,
> because it no more wants an Iranian state on its borders
> than Israel
> does. Instead the rockets and the tunnels came, and the sad
> destruction
> of the very greenhouses where flowers and fruit were grown
> and could
> have continued to be grown.
>
> What can the UK do? It can support Egypt, which is
> acting very well
> in this crisis, albeit for its own reasons of survival. It
> can help
> block Hamas from smuggling more arms by sea. It can press
> for the
> release of Gilad Shalit, who has been a hostage in Gaza
> for two and a
> half years with no access to the Red Cross or any other
> international
> agency. It can persuade Hamas to change the charter and
> remove mention
> of destruction. Above all, your Lordships should lend your
> voices to
> the end of the demonisation of Israel and to calm down the
> surging
> anti-Semitism. Your Lordships should recognise the need of
> Israel to
> exist and its legitimacy. It is no more arriviste in the
> Middle East
> than the other 22 Arab states to be found there. There can
> be no
> further removal of six million Jews from the Middle East.
> We must do
> nothing to feed the hatred that surrounds this issue and we
> must do
> everything to look to the future.
>
>
>
>
>

Well quoted, sir !

Sivad,
I have read the speech by Baroness Deech. I think that there are a few obvious mistakes in it, but of a minor nature.
However, I think to gain a more balanced view it would be appropriate to read the whole interesting debate from which this speech was taken from.
See connections below.
House of Lords debates
Friday, 6 February 2009
Gaza Motion to Take Note



http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2009-02-06a.861.2&s=speaker%3A13322#g912.0

This is the opening motion by Lord Malloch-Brown;

Moved By Lord Malloch-Brown

That this House takes note of developments in Gaza.
10:06 am
Lord Malloch-Brown (Minister of State, Foreign & Commonwealth Office; Labour) Link to this | Hansard source

My Lords, I do not think that there could be a more appropriate topic for today's debate than the situation in Gaza, and I am grateful to noble Lords for keeping the issue on the table. They will understand as well as I do that, although the fighting has now ceased, it will be a long time before Gaza fully recovers from the conflict.
I cannot emphasise enough the severity of the humanitarian situation in Gaza and the devastating impact that it has had on innocent civilians. It is clear from pictures beamed around the world that the damage to civilian infrastructure is extensive and the civilian death toll devastating.

The EU clearly outlined, during the General Affairs Council at the beginning of last week, that it will focus its support and assistance on immediate humanitarian relief for the population of Gaza and on the prevention of illicit trafficking in arms and ammunition. The UK fully supports this.

The priority is for humanitarian aid to get into Gaza and for reconstruction to begin. Last month, the United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Co-ordinator, John Holmes, was on a five-day mission to review the humanitarian needs. He has established some key priorities on which to focus: the re-establishment of basic services to the population of Gaza, including water, health, food, cash assistance, education and psychosocial support.

A fact-finding team from our consulate-general in Jerusalem visited Gaza earlier this week and had meetings with leading humanitarian agencies, including the Red Cross and the UN. Officials from the Department for International Development are working with implementers on the ground in Gaza to get a clear picture of the immediate needs of the population, the challenges going forward and how best the UK can contribute. The Government have contributed nearly 27 million to help to address the urgent humanitarian needs identified.

It is important that a number of countries, including Israel, share the burden of reconstruction in Gaza. We welcome the $1 billion contribution from Saudi Arabia, which was announced during the Arab League summit in January. However, for the effective distribution of humanitarian aid to be effective, two issues need to be addressed with the utmost urgency.

First, we, along with several organisations, including UNICEF, remain concerned about the dangers posed by landmines and unexploded ordnances. Two Palestinian children have already fallen victim, having been killed on 20 January by unexploded ordnance in Az Zaitoun in the Gaza Governorate. Therefore, security, including the marking and clearance of UXOs, is essential not just for the safety of Palestinians but also if we are to ensure the efficient delivery of humanitarian assistance to the population.
Secondly, we must ensure that the flow of aid to Gaza is unhindered. Noble Lords will no doubt want to raise the issue of the crossings and the volume of current aid which is or is not getting through, but I can say that international NGO staff are now working in the territory. However, it is evident that the number of trucks allowed into the Gaza strip needs to be increased, including not just those for humanitarian assistance but also those to support the private sector if the economy is to be put back on its feet. There also needs to be an easing in restrictions on the type of items allowed in. Additional crossings must be opened urgently, including Karni and Sufa, and basic construction materials also need to be allowed in to facilitate the repair of public infrastructure and private homes.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1860, introduced in Britain's name on 8 January, put pressure on both Hamas and the Government of Israel to halt all military activity, and we have seen progress in this direction. On 17 January, a ceasefire was implemented unilaterally by Israel, and the next day by Hamas and other Palestinian factions, and that continues to hold. Israeli troops are now deployed along the Gaza strip border. We, along with the international community, welcome the role played by the Egyptian Government in brokering this deal. However, it is imperative that the ceasefire is permanent and robust, and that responsibility falls not just on the Palestinians and Israelis but on the whole international community. There are two main pillars to support the ceasefire: easing the border restrictions, and strong action against the smuggling of arms into Gaza.

The PM met the Israeli Prime Minister in Jerusalem after the ceasefire in Gaza and made clear the need for an ease in border restrictions. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and other EU Foreign Ministers reiterated this message when they met the Israeli Foreign Minister on 21 January. We acknowledge the concerns of the Israeli Government about the smuggling of weapons into Gaza. Obviously we want to ensure that we make a practical difference in respect of that smuggling, which is in part a local issue across the Egypt-Gaza border, but which is also a wider one given the regional and even global flow of arms that takes place. Those two points must be addressed if the humanitarian situation is to improve. However, as I have said consistently in previous debates, the suffering of the people of Gaza will not be alleviated unless in the long term a political solution is found, as called for by UN Security Council Resolution 1850 in December.

We must now look beyond the ceasefire and redouble our efforts on the peace process more broadly. There is an unprecedented degree of consensus on the way forward, from the Arab League, the US, the EU and the UN. The Arab peace initiative provides a platform for this. A further essential step will need to be an Arab-led process of Palestinian reconciliation. Again, I congratulate Egypt on its mediation efforts. Israel must also recognise and reward the progress already made in the West Bank by the Palestinian Authority.

We meet today at a time when Gaza's reconstruction and development is the most urgent priority task in front of us. But that is just a first step. Beyond it, the ceasefire, which holds precariously, must be made much more robust and durable, and beyond that still, if we are not to fall back into the cycle of violence and retribution of recent years and even decades, we must once more commit ourselves to the peace process. The early engagement in that regard of the new Administration in Washington is to be welcomed, as is that of the Arab neighbours. I beg to move.

I'm finding this thread so much faster to read these days and drivel-free :)

you must be reading a different thread or have you squelched several - lol!

Is anybody going to read through this crap....Fred1new : you need help....nuts..blogging like this on a finance site !.

No just the one squashed.......some of the others are funny so that makes them worth reading :)

And that goes for Sivad as well...what has this to do with finance or bet spreading ?, nothing more than political broadcasting....perhaps this is the BBC...they are very good at the one sided Labour interviews !, and such !.

threads here do not have to single-minded, thank goodness

Required, You don't have to read the thread.

Cynic, I have squelched a number of posters. The posters I have blocked are those where I thought the individuals were concentrating on being offensive of deliberately vulgar. They appeared to have more satisfaction from attempting to disparage anybody with a conflicting opinion to their own and an inability accept alternative ways of looking at a problem. I think they expose themselves for others to judge.

I see them as limited and bigoted.


At least I did respect Sivad enough to read what he posted and follow it up.
I think if one does have time to read the debate in the House of Lords "That this House takes note of developments in Gaza" it is informative. Giving views from both sides of the conflict. But I wouldn't expect the "funny gang" to be able to concentrate for long enough to be able to do so.