Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I'm not so sure that Fred needs supervising, iturama. It seems to me that he does a very good job of winding you lot up without any supervision.

On the other hand, there are two or three inwardly-thinking geriatrics on this thread who definitely shouldn't be let out alone.

:o)

CNG.

What I need is gentle nursing and caring for.

And sometimes I love black cherries.

8-)

Come Tuesday, it seems we might get some kind of a decision....

The former Australian Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer, sums it up like this:

"If the UK leaves the EU without an agreement, the result will be a hard border with Ireland. People have got to remember that.

The EU actually doesn’t have much negotiating clout on this issue and yet they have somehow scared people in the UK into believing it’s the UK's responsibility to fix this problem. But it isn't. On the contrary, it is the EU’s responsibility to fix this problem.

The UK has said they will not establish a hard border along the Irish border, only the EU has said it will do that. Well, that is a matter for Ireland and the EU. It would be a huge shame if they decided to do it, and personally, I think it would be quite wrong for them to do it, but if that’s what they want to do. It’s a free world in the EU, they can do what they like.

Theresa May needs to make this clear. What country is going to lose the most from a failed negotiation? It’s Ireland, not the UK, it’s Ireland."

From the Sunday Times..

Senior sources say the prime minister has secured private concessions from Brussels that will allow her to keep the whole of Britain in a customs union, avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland. They expect this to placate remainer Tories and win over some Labour MPs.

And in a move that will appeal to Eurosceptics, May is also said to be on course to secure a political deal on a “future economic partnership” (FEP) with the European Union that will allow Britain to keep open the prospect of a free trade deal resembling that enjoyed by Canada.

However, Nigel Farage says:

The “secret” deal would mean there would be no need for Northern Ireland to be treated differently to the rest of the UK, according to the Sunday Times.

Speaking on LBC Radio, Nigel Farage said May’s deal “doesn’t give us any of the possible benefits of Brexit.”

He explained: “She’s already said she wants the transition period to go on a further year until the end of 2021. We are due a general election which has to happen in the spring of 2022, and at the time of next general election we are going to be in a position where we’ve not taken back control of our borders, taken control of our fisheries, we’re not able to make our own trade deals, and financially it won’t be a £39 billion we give the EU it will be something closer to £60 billion.”

He warned that Theresa May’s deal may only help Jeremy Corbyn’s chances to gain the keys to 10 Downing Street at the next election.

Farage previously said he could deliver a “simple” Brexit plan - but wasn’t prepared to reveal the details because Number 10 wouldn’t talk to him.

Fellow Brexiteer and former Conservative politician David Mellor said May's plan sounds like “BINO” which stands for “Brexit in Name Only” and such move would ultimately mean the UK would not leave the European Union on 31 March 2019.

“The whole idea for Brexit was that it would give us the freedom of the seas... I think staying in a customs union smacks of BINO.”

Farage also used his platform to criticise Tony Blair’s latest remarks in the Observer pushing for a People’s Vote.

The former Labour prime minister wrote: “I promise them as someone who used to win elections: no one will lose their seat on this basis. But vote through a botched negotiation that you don’t believe in and the backlash will last a political lifetime.”

Farage responded to his comments by saying a People’s Vote would lead to a “backlash” from the people but “it won’t be on the side you think.”

He said: “Mr Blair I don’t think you ave any idea of what the political backlash will

both blair and farage (and cameron) are busted flushes and should scuttle off into the undergrowth where they belong

Taking the tory Theresa and the tory neo-cons with them.

Moggy has 6 kids. Somebody should tell him that the withdrawal method never works.

:o)

Here's something useful for Dilbert and co to do today!

Brexit: Top lawyers say another EU vote is 'democratic'

Brexit: Business leaders call for second EU vote

Monday’s best TV: Doing Money; Brexit: What the Nation Really Thinks

At least he is clearly virile Hilary. Unlike that geriatric reprobate Fred who only dreams of taking your cherry.

CNG - Moggy can afford support all those kids and I sure he has come to the conclusion that now is the time to withdraw, as I expect he is aware that the EU will want him to support all their rash decisions, including the open door policy that has resulted in divided nations, alog with all their kids.

It,

Are you trying to project or compensate for your own obvious inadequacies?

Perhaps, you should read :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-american-civil-war-didnt-end-and-trump-is-a-confederate-president

and then relate it to the messages from the Brexit Rabble, led by Farage, Boris, The Moggie, IDS, and cohorts.

I wonder what Trump's real goals are?

I also question what the expectations of the Brexit elite's are?

It,

Perhaps, if Brexit goes through you will recall:

"a dead statesman

I could not dig: I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?"

That's pretty good Fred except for the word statesman. Could have been written by Corby himself.
A statesman by definition is wise, respected and experienced.

"Perhaps, if Brexit goes through" Fred - you must mean when it goes through.

We cast off the chains that held us back
Taking advantage of the slack.
They feared that once we were free
Their lies will be there for all to see.

No longer will we pay
We have had our say.
Remainers will change their way
Bexiters have won the day.

as has been obvious from the outset, no one side will win, for a compromise of some kind was and remains the pragmatic outcome