This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

Not sure that i liked the British Empire being showed as pink on the maps.

HEALTH WARNING
Reading Hewittalan6 posts can damage your health.

I'm a psychiatrist with an office here in Shatwell.Some of you seem rather angry and would benefit from my counselling.I think there are certain issues here needing to be challenged.

Holbeg ,that's very nice of you but we have our own psychiatrist on moneyam ,,Bosley has his own counselling thread.

You have got to be mad to be a psychiatrist in Shatwell, by the way have you paid Moneyam to advertise for clients here ?

Hobleg

That is the very point. The issues here are very challenging.

Keep taking the tablets!

Nam

War what War?

Looks like my missus has been doing the map reading again.
200 miles form where they should be.
Alan

Hobleg, you don't have to be ashamed of yourself because you are a psychiatrist and if you wish you can use this thread for your confessions. A little abreaction is good for you.

aldwickk- where did you get that pic of me just after i started reading your posts?

Alan - some good points. I think Britain must have one of highest human rights record in the world now. One of the reasons i was happy the government didnt get this holding people in custody for 90 days that could have taken us back a bit.

MM made me laugh when he called India the biggest democracy in the world. He has obviously never read about an Indian race they call the 'untouchables', i'd like him to ask them about democracy. Blinger also made the point that billions of people want to come to country which is true but forgot to say more and more brits want to get away from it. I recently had to spend 5 weeks in an Itailian Hospital and it was brilliant.

How did the Italians treat you?
I have been fortunate to travel widely and have almost always found my nationality was treated with courtesy and respect, particularly in the Arab world. The only time I have been shown any disrespect, due to being British, was in Crete of all places, in 1983, which was, I was told later, how the local youths reacted to foreigners who appeared rich to them. I was not rich of course, I was a young lad getting drunk every night, but they simply saw me spending more on booze in a night than they earned in a month.
Perhaps, on another level, this is partly what fuels the dischord between nations.
Alan

Kivver You said "Alan - i dont claim too know much about India or our history there as part of the BE. I just know our human rights issues left a lot to be desired. For examle you say we helped build Railways, how was this done???"

What puzzles me is how you can claim to know that our human rights record in INdia left much to be desired when you, on the other hand, say that you do not know much about our history there.

For the record, the Indian Railways were largely built by Scottish engineers who came from the Glasgow engineering college which I attended. It became the *Royal* College of Science and Technology after George V's Durbar, when he kept meeting Scottish engineers on the railways there. RCST is now the University of Strathclyde.

MM

This is an eduction [ did i spell that right ] this thread .

Thanks for that MM. I could catch the hint of "were the railways built using slave labour?" but I had no idea on the answer.
I have never been to India, but in southern Sri Lanka, they are very proud of their colonial past, and preserve many fine buildings and traditions from the era. Much of their current economy is built around the industries created and then abandoned by the empire.
Alan

aldwickk: "eduction [ did i spell that right ]"

Er, no, you didn't ;-)

MM - nice too see get to some serious argument. I admit ive never studied what goes on there, but i havent been living in a shed for the past 40 years either. The glimpses of tv programmes i have seen, the film 'Ghandi' and different articles i have read in the papers all help build a picture. You said the scottish built the railways in India, we didnt need any help from the locals then?

Alan - the italians were brilliant, for first 5 days i was completely out of it and cannot remember a thing (head injury), apparently i was very abusive and threatening and in total denial of having an accident. Swearing at staff, refusing to let them treat me, pulling out tubes etc etc but they never gave up on me and i am eternally grateful to them. The place was spotless, no mrsa, vistors had to wear gowns and shoe covers etc. A total oppisite to what has happened since i got back.

A fair time back on a lads holiday again in Italy we meet some US sailors in a bar, 5 of us and 5 of them, and we a good chat and a laugh for about 20 mins then about 10 of their friends joined them. One was a big black guy about 6'5'' tall, built like a you know what. When they came over these lads just turned on us told him a whole pack of lies saying we were calling him this and that. You can guess the result of what happened, we got a good kicking.

Thought I'd just brighten up this thread!!

War in Iraq 'may not be justified'


Tony Blair's former envoy to Iraq has conceded the war may not have been worthwhile.

Sir Jeremy Greenstock said it was too early to say if the war was worth the violence and lawlessness that has followed the ousting of Saddam Hussein.

In an interview to be broadcast on the BBC's Sunday AM programme, Sir Jeremy was asked if, in the light of the troubles in Iraq, the war was "worth it".

He replied: "I don't think we can tell yet. I think it is probably up to each person in his own mind to make that decision."

Sir Jeremy said the Iraqis wanted to see the back of Saddam, but they also wanted the coalition to be more "competent" in giving them a new life.

Sir Jeremy said the biggest mistake was to allow a security vacuum to develop in Iraq. He said the current violence would last for "many years".

He said the coalition had wrongly assumed that the operation would be easier than it turned out and that the Iraqis would be able to look after themselves.

Before taking up his post in Iraq Sir Jeremy was Britain's ambassador to the UN. He played a pivotal role in the negotiations over the resolutions before the war.

In the interview he said he believed the British Government would have liked the weapons inspectors to have been given another six months, but it got caught up in the American momentum.

Sir Jeremy lays the blame for the mistakes clearly on Washington. He said the Pentagon was in control of policy.