Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

It ain't over till the Fat Lady sings, ladies

:o)

I thought Jo Johnson was a singer hils , never heard of this one before this evenings news.

A no deal exit looking more and more likely imo and probably a lot of people's including my own preferred choice given the current alternative.

140 sleeps to go.

Labours Anna Sourpuss on Andrew Marr this morning , what a clown.

Couldn't explain how voting against a deal reached with the EU would lead to a better outcome rather than a no deal.

Also failed to explain how any of Labours six tests would be agreed to by the EU.

No wonder Fred is such a fan , they all live together in cloud cuckoo land.

Excellent article in today's Telegraph:

We will vote against a deal that prioritises the EU over the UK
STEVE BAKER
10 NOVEMBER 2018 • 9:07PM

The only plausible outline of a successful UK exit from the EU with a deal is obvious. It is the offer made by the EU, extended to the whole UK.

The deal offered would: ensure security cooperation and participation in institutions of research and innovation, culture and education; deal with potential absurdities like any threat to flights, data or the mutual recognition of our driving licences; and result in an advanced free trade agreement covering all sectors with zero tariffs, no quantitative restrictions and including services.

The obstacles to this deal are twofold: the border with Ireland must be made invisible and compliant in all circumstances, and the Prime Minister must ask for it.

The solution to the present impasse is to table a standalone treaty on trade facilitation with Ireland.

It would deliver an invisible, compliant border under WTO rules and it would be suitable for inclusion in the ultimate FTA as the Irish border protocol to the trade facilitation chapter. Ireland would have a permanent, legally enforceable backstop, consistent with all parties’ commitment to no hard border under any circumstances.

The EU would have a mechanism within their existing law for ensuring the integrity of the single market under WTO rules or an FTA. The whole UK would leave together, into a situation of self-government.

Unlike an Article 50-based backstop, the solution would be legally sure and therefore enduring.

Northern Ireland is in the frontline of the EU and Ireland’s demands, and the wrong Brexit would have implications for all parts of the UK. In Scotland, Unionists making the sound economic case for remaining in the UK’s internal market would have to explain why there are barriers to their trade with Northern Ireland.

Without an independent trade policy, Unionists could not bolster the unity of our country with improved access to key Northern Irish and Scottish markets in the USA and elsewhere. We would continue to look to Brussels and not our own Parliament for policy. And if the EU does steal away with the UK’s fish, what could the UK government say to Scottish fishermen who rightly counted on the UK Government to deliver them a fair share of the UK’s fish, only to see it negotiated away for nothing? Unionist MPs in Scotland would pay the price.

The current debate on the backstop - or the backstop to the backstop - is one no independent state should be having with its neighbours. The EU is demanding either that we split our country as we leave or that we remain under the structures of power of the EU without a voice in how that power is used.

If the EU believes it is entitled to break apart or subjugate the UK, then it is an outrage. But for the UK Government to entertain acquiescence in such an outrage would be a humiliation and a gross insult to people who sacrificed themselves through history to keep power under the consent of the governed.

We do not wish to see ‘no deal’ with our EU partners. We share the Prime Minister’s ambition for an EU free trade agreement, but not at any price and certainly not at the price of our Union.

If the Government makes the historic mistake of prioritising placating the EU over establishing an independent and whole UK, then regrettably we must vote against the deal. If Parliament is forced to reject the Government’s deal, then we will once again have called the bluff of vested interest lobbyists and Whitehall scaremongers. And again we will have made the right choice for our democracy and our Union.

(Steve Baker was a Brexit minister until July 2018 and is deputy chairman of the European Research Group. Sammy Wilson is the DUP's Brexit spokesman.)

Only another 139 days left before that ever growing demand for that informed referendum people is here.

Dil and Steve Baker should have been negotiating for the UK in 1913-14.


Or were they?

Perhaps, Exec was helping them.

Perhaps, in order to catch up, they should watch:

https://www.my5.tv/world-war-1-in-colour/season-1--2/world-war-1-in-colour

“Dil and Steve Baker should have been negotiating for the UK in 1913-14.


Or were they?

Perhaps, Exec was helping them.”

Fred I can’t speak for Exec or Baker but Dil’s “shoot to miss” policy was always going to take ages to settle anything...apparently he caught that policy from his football team 😀

Not long to the riots.

Hooray!!!!

I heard the other day there was a bloke called GOD looking for a job, but he says he is too busy with other jobs.

What I would like is to see is a cross-party representative group who have the courage to put their pride in their pockets and admit they have made colossal mistakes over Brexit. They may earn some respect, which is blatantly missing in the political leadership of the present major parties of the UK.

There is certainly a dearth of political leadership in the main UK political parties at the moment where “small-minded”, short-termed self-interest is being portrayed by the “so-called leading lights”, especially the tory party. Many of the latter showing more interest in their own political futures and pockets than that of the UK as a whole.

I would like to see an attempt to rescind their present negotiations and attempt to review and renegotiate the rule, regulations, laws, contracts with the EU over a PROLONGED PERIOD, giving a chance to sort out the expectation and goals compatible with all its membership, not just the UK wishes and wants. Also, for those negotiating to consider that the benefits are for all members of the EU realising the political upheavals at the moment are partially due to the discontentment due distortion of aspirations of many in society. The problem for many discontents is they are unable to plan their futures without any real degree of certainty due to constant and erratic changes. They are also “feeling” that they are paying for “austerity” and not the individuals who created the problems. Look at the policy failures of the present government and the attempt to put much of the blame placed on the weaknesses of the EU, rather than themselves and their own “mistakes” and actions.

I don’t condemn individuals for making well-intentioned mistakes if the actions have been given due thought and consideration before implementation, But I do damn them if they deny the mistakes when they realise them or the mistakes are exposed.

Unfortunately, I “feel” there is a dearth of political leaders in the UK at present and to a similar or lesser degree in the EU.

-=-=-=-=

Divorces are easier when both parties respect the needs and wishes of one another, rather than dismissing one another by making blind irresponsible dismissive demands of each other.

who would you nominate from the labour party as being a person of high principles and moral standing, who would actually lay his party political dogma to one side?

clearly you wouldn't nominate anyone from the tory party, so i'm not sure from where you would get your x-party alliance

The only mistake over Brexit is not getting out as quickly as possible - just get out and get on with it. No need for discussion - one party walks and gets on with their lives with new partners - just like any other divorcee if one party has the sense to walk and just say good bye - no hard feelings. Buck the trend and make a new friend.

even when there are children?
and who pays the maintenance etc?

After 40 years of marriage all kids will have long flown the nest and the why should the British pay any maintenance? Let them and all the hangers on support themselves. Get a grip and just leave them out to hang and dry. Not our responsibility. Just like Trump has had the balls to tell the EU countries to pay their way when it comes to defense. They are all a bunch of leaches.

Edging closer to exit date. Get feeling it wont happen as most MPs just don't want it to go ahead.

Suddenly realised we are going to leave have you Fred ?

A cross party whatever of a few MPs to deny the democratic will of the people , no thanks Fred.

Both main parties had Brexit as part of their manifesto at the last election , Libs had remain and got nowhere.

They need the 39 billion off us and a deal will be reached and then it'll be up to Parltament to either vote it through or let us leave with no vote.

Mrs May can't call a snap GE because it would trigger a leadership challenge.

Maybe if you and people like you had bothered to go out and vote Fred then Brexit may never have happened.

How appropriate Fred 😀

Don't tell me Stan , you didn't know what you were voting for at the last General Election so we should re run that too before we leave.

Stick to football , at least you know ..... on second thoughts forget that too :-)