This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

Bush didn't know the difference until recently between a Sunni and a Shi'ite.

However, it is true that Islamic militants hated the US before the invasion of Iraq. Bin laden was radicalised in 82 with the US backing Isreal in the bombing of Beirut; the direct cause of 9/11 was the repressive campaign led by Sharon in 2000 which made recruitment easier for radicals as the death toll mounted.

The 2005 CIA report just released by the Senate Committee on Intelligence clearly debunks the neocon myth that Saddam was linked to 9/11.

watch this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5pXSWcULbI&eurl

I love this stuff. It keeps a whole generation of nutters fully occupied pursuing "the truth". They paint Bush alternately as an imbecile that doesn't know his left hand from his right and as the ultimate mastermind behind the greatest conspiracy the world has ever known. And managed to keep it secret! Bloody hilarious.

It's quite clear from this logic that Winston Churchill orchestrated the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor to bring the U.S. into the Second World War.

No, no, it's better than that! It was Royal Navy aircraft carriers wot did it, with American Harvard trainers in Japanese colours that carried out the attack (they look just like Mitsubishi Zeros, y'know).

Mm I didn't know you knew Winny that well.

He was flying the lead plane into Pearl Harbour.

My uncle told me!

from www.nineeleven.co.uk the British 911 truth movement

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: TIME for a change : Alternative Conference Sunday 24th sept

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I met Craig Murray today following a speech he gave in Manchester among others such as George Galloway.

Had a brief chat with Craig, who was pleased I knew of the Liquid Bomb plot fallacy (in detail) and he had only added that to his website 4 days after I/we became aware, thanks to Nafeez Ahmed.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Sources_August_Terror_Plot_Fiction_U nderscoring_0918.html
Vs Craigs coverage
http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/

I got very candid answers from him that the "Heathrow plot is nonsense", backed purely by forced tortured confessions. He fully recognises most of these plots are "in fact intel ops and are trial by media without any evidence to back it up, followed by silent, in the media releases later", of so called terror cells. He acknowledged of his admission "the suicide wills and martyr videos are in fact 12 year old documents (confirmed by a defense lawyer he just spoke with) and that the videos are freely available ones (I pointed out such from internet archive etc) that are unrelated to the so called plotters". He broached the ricin plot and I covered the Old Trafford, Forest Gate, Canary Wharf and others. He agreed

We discussed a few other issues and he was frank about his "total astonishment that no-one is questioning blatantly obvious lies, or simple commonsense issues presented as fact by the media". I assured him many are but arent getting the coverage!

I didnt have time to broach 911 with him but this guy is well worth contacting in an official Scholars/911 UK or 7/7 truth campaign capacity.


Other speeches today were very noteworthy including Media against War journalists, who exposed how they are being controlled largely in pro Israeli and zionist ways to portray the news. Even if they write a truthful article it gets doctored by editors and seniors and they are welcome of all dissenting views to back up their attempted articles.

Of particular note in media talks were by:
Tim Lezard of the National Union of Journalists
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=8461
Dave Crouch (Media workers against war)
Yvonee Ridely (islam channel)

that exposed the above issues.

Of real interest was an Iraqi speaker, who sadly is not listed in the events program and I had run out of tape for his talk. I failed to collar him aswell .

He layed down quite solidly, that Iraqi solidarity among Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Christian elements are so inter married and connected that UK/US occupation could never splinter the country and NEVER create civil war. He went on to show that at least in his and Iraqi belief the CIA and MOSSAD are running death squads that are carrying out all the bombings and violence in order to justify the ongoing occupation. IF we leave, it all ends. So we have to prove that Civil War which Bush Blair deny exists, is in fact the only truth they are telling! There is no Al-qaeda resitance to stay the course for, only black op squads creating an excuse for prolonged occupation!

You will find the videos of this Manchester conference in the next few days upon youtube.com under "Manchester Anti War".

I will be upping my own videos to google shortly.

Please contact Craig Murray someone official

Regards
_________________
ST911.ORG

"Let the chips fall where they may"
"Stand and be counted"

now lets wait for the insults...

The Lion and the Boar

One hot, thirsty day a lion and a wild boar came to drink at a pool. Both animals wanted to drink first.

"I was here first," said the boar, standing across the lion's path.
"I am the King of all the beasts," replied the lion majestically, trying to shoulder him aside. "Why should I wait until you have made the water all muddy with your hooves?"

The two animals began to fight angrily. The boar attacked with his great, pointed tusks; the lion hung grimly onto his throat. After a while they backed away, panting, one to each side of the pool. As he rested the lion happened to look towards the rock above them. There watching and waiting, was a crow of ugly vultures.

"Look there,", he said solemnly to the boar. "Those birds are waiting to eat you or me. Whoever loses this fight will be picked clean as an elepnant's tusk in no time."

The boar looked up at the birds. The lion and the boar looked at one another.
"Let's stop fighting," they said together. "Anything is better than being a vulture's next meal. There is plenty of water here for both of us."

Aesop's moral tales are more relevant today than two and half thousand years ago.

Last year, every man, woman and child in the UK were indirectly robbed 140 by people, British nationals and foreigners, involved with the "Dubai" VAT fraud. Too much resources and attentions have been distracted for too long from these much larger threat to the country.

A bit of lethargy, indifference and shrugging to provocations and stirrings may help all of us to see more clearly the much bigger and present danger to us all.

Posted online: Sunday, September 24, 2006 at 1058 hours IST
Updated: Monday, September 25, 2006 at 0913 hours IST

Montreal, September 24: Afghan President Hamid Karzai urged the international community to put an end to Islamic schools that teach hatred and produce suicide bombers, ahead of summits next week with the United States and Pakistan.



Madrassas, or Islamic schools, are "teaching hatred rather than religion, (teaching) that some people we must hate, that some people we must destroy," Karzai said at a public luncheon in Montreal.

The Afghan president said it "will take a lot of sacrifice from Afghans, and from the rest of the world ... to get rid of those places who in the name of madrassas, in the name of religious schools, are teaching hatred to young people and sending them against us, who are actually training suicide bombers against us."

His comments, at the event hosted by the Conseil des Relations Internationales, an academic organization, came on the final day of a three-day visit to Canada.

Monday, September 25, 2006

UK Shuns Main Muslim Bodies: MCB Leader
Seems the Muslim Council of Britain is upset that the government has woke up and stopped talking to terror sympathizers.


UK Shuns Main Muslim Bodies: MCB Leader

By Amina Satour, IOL Correspondent


"The perception is given that we are offensive when we criticize the government, it is blackmail, and when others criticize it is ok," said Abdul Bari.

LONDON The Blair government is marginalizing the major Muslim organizations in Britain for the sake of unrepresentative bodies and individuals and its domestic and foreign policies risk radicalize more Muslims, which harms the British social harmony and peace, said the Secretary General of the Muslim umbrella group in Britain.

"The government is marginalizing major Muslim organizations, including the MCB, and it seems that new organizations are being brought up in the house of parliament where they dont have any base," Muhammad Abdul Bari told IslamOnline.net in an exclusive interview.
"It is a perception in the community that they [the government] are trying to divide the community along sectarian lines that is the perception I have heard in different places."


He said the government is now reaching out to obscure Islamic organizations and shunning the representative one.

"So the government now is talking to something called Sufi Muslim Council founded a month ago," Abdul Bari said.

The MCB leader, a specialist teacher in behavior support, added that the newly established Commission for Integration and Cohesion included unknown Muslim faces.

"Not a single Muslim rep was taken from any of the national Muslim organizations," he said, noting that the Hindu representative is the secretary general of the Hindu Forum UK.

Abdul Bari, a father of four, was picked in June from among 37 candidates at the MCB annual general meeting to replace outgoing Sir Iqbal Sacranie.

He was elected in a secret ballot of more than 250 delegates representing the major MCB national and regional bodies.

The MCB, a coalition of some 400 organizations, is the largest Muslim umbrella group in Britain, home to 1.8 million Muslims.

Hushing Critics

The MCB leader, who has a PhD and a PGCE from King's College London and a management degree from the Open University, said it seems that the government wants to talk to people who "simply listen to them and who do not criticize."

"The perception is given that we are offensive when we criticize the government, it is blackmail, and when others criticize it is ok," he complained.

Abdul Bari, who has a Bangladeshi origin, said the government did not accept the latest Muslim criticism of its stance on the Israeli war on Lebanon.

"We made this point when Lebanon was invaded by Israel and our prime minister simply followed Bush's line," he recalled.

"We made noise, some MPs and major Muslim organizations sent an advertisement and we were told we were trying to blackmail the government."

In August, an open Muslim letter blaming British foreign policy for giving "ammunitions" to terrorists has been criticized by the government and senior politicians.

Demonizing

The MCB leader criticized double standards in dealing with the ugly phenomenon of terror.

"When the Irish situation was prevailing in this country, the government and the security agencies targeted the people who were creating crime in the society, the catholic community was not targeted as a bad community," he said.

"Unfortunately, we have some bad apples and because of them the whole community is demonized."

Abdul Bari slammed anti-terror measures, including house raids and racial profiling, applied in the wake of the 7/7 terrorist attacks.

"It is not helping at all," he stressed, asserting that there are better ways to deal with any issue over a Muslim school or mosque than raiding them.

He cited last week's raid on an Islamic school that is a charitable organization.

"If I was a police officer what I would have done is to ask the charity commission what exactly is happening there and probably go to the school directly and talk to the management and the head teacher and see what is going on. And if they hide something then there is a room for investigation in other things.

"But nothing we dont know about and suddenly a school is vilified in the pretext that someone called Abu Hamza [Al-Masri] went there a few times and had some meetings."

The MCB leader offered a recipe.

"If there is intelligence about certain people, they can be taken to court and tried. Nobody disagrees about that. But for a few people, the whole community must not be demonized."

Far-Right Media

The British Muslim leader cited a correlation between the government policies and demonizing the minority by far-right media.

"So when a government behaves the way it has been behaving and media portrays Muslims in a very negative way, it gives us a scenario that this community is not accepted fully, and then it does not help community relationships," he said.

Abdul Bari said the media portrayal that Islam by nature can not fit into multicultural society is totally wrong.

"This is the perception being given by the far right media and mainly sections of politicians," he noted.

Such portrayals, the MCB leader cautioned, are leaving the impression that Islam is the enemy now as was Communism during the cold war.

He said right-wing media are making too much fuss about extremism among Muslims and tend to give much weight to "big mouths" and portray them as the representatives of British Muslims when in fact they are a minority.

"It [extremism] is a thing that exists within every community unfortunately," Abdul Bari admitted.

"In our community it is now exposed in the manner that no other community has been exposed like that but the number is a tiny minority.

"In the past few years, we saw certain people who had big mouth and the media used to pick them up, people like Abu Hamza," noted the MCB leader.

Two-Way Process

Abdul Bari also said that integration is a "two-way process" and the government has a greater role to play.

"The overwhelming part of the Muslim community wants to live in peace. They want to integrate positively socially, economically and politically."

He criticized government officials for repeatedly criticizing the Muslim minority as not doing enough to better integrate into society.

"The present government is simply trying to blame the Muslim community and its leaders that we are not doing enough. Nobody is doing enough in fact. We should do more, the government should do more and at the end of the day, it is a collective national process. We have to work together," Abdul Bari said.

He stressed that Muslims should not be squarely blamed for the ghetto mentality.

"There has been self segregation in places such as Bradford and other places but it is not only the fault of the Muslim community. Why have people moved away from Muslim areas and certain cities so it is a two way process."

The MCB leader said British Muslims are still facing daunting domestic challenges.

"It is education, housing, employment and health issues that are haunting sections of the Muslim communities; some are more affected than others.

"Unemployment is more than three times the national average," he added.

A government-backed study, conducted by university researchers in Birmingham, Derby, Oxford and Warwick, showed in July that 14% of Muslims aged over 25 were unemployed, compared with the national unemployment rate of 4%.

Commissioned to review the prospects of faith communities in England, it also found Muslims had poorer levels of education and were more vulnerable to long-term illness.

those evil evil muslims always trying to better themselves.
get back to your masonic hovel.

Knock knock Knock! Who goes who goes there? Castle in Zurich...

???????????????????????????????????????????
crazy man

To the guy who wrote about the good points of freemasonry a while back. Yes, I know masons and they are very good people of high moral fibre. And I agree they do a lot of good civic work and help charities. And I certainly do not mean to tar them over the odd incident where a blind eye has been turned, but I feel I must bring up a couple of points. Unfortunately, I know from a source that the Dunblane gunman Thomas Hamilton was a mason. So what, you might say; well this enabled him to go on keeping guns and a license I think, when he shouldn't have had one at all. The consequences were of course tragic. The police, which traditionally has had a lot of masons in it, chose not to rescind his license although many concerns had been voiced. In the aftermath the masons said he'd never been a member of their organisation. But I have it on good authority from a high up mason that he was.

how did we get form this:

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

to this

Yes, I know masons and they are very good people of high moral fibre

in 1008 posts

I can only assume that the gulf war has been thrashed to bordom and people need a new topic. I think it is fair to say the Gulf war was justified, the government lied, the soldiers are under manned and need to come home. The people of Iraq have no idea what they want or how to achieve it. The western powers are after the best contracts for thier own country.

Newsweek, Oct 02, 2006. Page 24.

So far the US "War on Terror" has cost more than $530 billion.

Figures, in $bn for Afganistan, Dept of Homeland Security, Iraq ..
(rounded up/down to the nearest $bn)

2001/2002 - 18,0,3
2003 - 17, 28, 51
2004 - 15, 30, 77
2005 - 18, 32, 87
2006 - 20, 33, 100

Lots of profits there ...

Or about $100's million per terrorist killed.

As Leo McKistry states in the Telegraph:

Even the most acerbic satirist would have struggled to come up with a plot as outlandish as the trial that concluded this week at the Old Bailey, involving a blackmailing Brazilian cleaner and a pair of adulterous, sexually uninhibited members of the judiciary. The ingredients of this extraordinary case, featuring a Serbian gangster and serial killer, a series of explicit videos, one of them including a "mystery blonde", allegations of cocaine snorting in Thailand and a trouser-dropping, bearded Muslim judge by the name of Mohammed Khan, would have stretched the bounds of credibility if staged in a West End farce.

http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/003069.html

He sounds a little jealous.

must be at least 10 times that amount, how many were british/muslims?

Al-Qaida in Iraq: 4,000 insurgents dead
Staff and agencies
28 September, 2006




9 minutes ago

CAIRO, Egypt - The new leader of al-Qaida in Iraq said in an audio message posted on a Web site Thursday that more than 4,000 foreign insurgent fighters have been killed in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. It was believed to be the first major statement from insurgents in Iraq about their losses.

The Arabic word he used indicated he was speaking about foreigners who joined the insurgency in Iraq, not coalition troops.

and the was in Iraq ain't a recruiting tool for extremists.
LOL


The War in Iraq Costs
$330,282,823,582 as of 29/09/2006 at 1700hrs.

US Casualties By Calendar Year
Year US Deaths US Wounded
2003 486 2408
2004 848 7997
2005 846 5946
2006 530 3559
Total 2710 19910

lets invade IRAN.
I feel tooo safe at present.