Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

A confirmed Hamas terrorist leader was among the flotilla activists on the Mavi Marmara, holding a Dutch passport.

A confirmed terrorist leader Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu ordered the massacre

ISTANBUL (Agencies)

The head of a Turkish charity that organized the aid flotilla attacked by Israeli forces said activists had rushed some of the soldiers and snatched their weapons, but had thrown them overboard without using them.

Bulent Yildirim, chairman of the Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (IHH), denied Israeli accounts of events on board the Mavi Maramara after Israeli commandos stormed the ship on Monday in an operation that resulted in at least nine people being killed.

" We told our friends on board: We will die, become martyrs, but never let us be shown as the ones who used guns "
Bulent Yildirim"We were given the bodies of nine martyrs, but we have a longer list. There are missing people," he told reporters. "Our doctors handed over 38 injured, on our return they (the Israelis) said there were only 21 injured,"Yildirim said.

Yildirim, who was on board the vessel, said some of the activists had grabbed guns off 10 soldiers in self-defense.

"Yes, we took their guns. It would be self defense even if we fired their guns," Yildirim said, adding that people shouted to them not to use the weapons.

"We told our friends on board: "We will die, become martyrs, but never let us be shown... as the ones who used guns," Yildirim said on Thursday.

"By this decision, our friends accepted death, and we threw all the guns we took from them into the sea."

Israel said its troops fired in self-defence during an operation to seize a flotilla of ships intended to break a blockade it has imposed on the Gaza strip. Activists had attacked soldiers with batons, knives and two pistols seized from marines,

It said two of those killed had used the seized pistols to wound two commandos.

Yildirim said the Israeli commandos fired rubber bullets from close range before switching to live ammunition, after some activists on board had attacked them with chairs and bats.

"The Israelis published videos of the bats used on the ship, but they damaged their "strong Israeli army" image, as the world saw that a bunch of volunteers can neutralize them," Yildirim said.

Describing the dead as martyrs, Yilirim said his charity would continue to organize aid convoys until Israel was forced to end the blockade of 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza.

Yildirim said an Indonesian doctor was shot in the stomach as he helped a wounded Israeli soldier.


Clash on deck

" As the clash was going on upstairs on the deck, we were taking care of Israelis downstairs, as we gave them water, we were informed that our friends died there "
Bulent Yildirim"As the clash was going on upstairs on the deck, we were taking care of Israelis downstairs, as we gave them water, we were informed that our friends died there," Yildirim said.

"We told the Indonesian doctor to take the soldier back. He took his patient back, and as he was going back, they shot him 5 times in the stomach," he said.

He also described how a photographer was shot in the forehead from a distance of a meter, though it was unclear whether he witnessed it personally.

Another activist was shot as he was surrendering, he said.

"I took off my shirt and waved it, as a white flag. We thought they would stop after seeing the white flag, but they continued killing people," Yildirim said.

"A friend of ours saw two dead bodies in a toilet," he added.

One of the dead was 19-year-old old boy Furkan Dogan, a Turkish citizen with an American passport. State-run Anatolia news agency said he was hit by four bullets in the head and one in the chest.

Anatolia reported that the body of a national taekwando athlete, Cetin Topcuoglu, had also been identified.

Yildirim's Israeli interrogators told him that the soldiers were given permission to use live ammunition only 35 minutes into the operation. The charity chief said some activists had already been wounded by casing from the shock blast and gas bombs used in the initial assault.

He said soldiers had herded activists on deck and a helicopter had sprayed them with water to subdue them.

sprayed them with water to subdue them.

Was it holy water

re 2506
the Lord said unto Moses, all the jews shall have long noses; but as for he called Aaron, he shall have a square 'un

Israel complains about rocket attacks. I have seen estimates of around 13 people killed by rockets in recent times. The last incursion into Gaza killed huge numbers and devestated large numbers of dwellings. Israel are using white phosphorous bombs as a smoke screen to cover their advance. The chemicals from these fall on civilians and often children, causing horrific burns.

The blockade (siege) of Gaza has reduced most of the population into abject poverty. Children are dying from lack of medical supplies.

This is not a proportianate response, but that's Israel's trademark. I have seen several compairons recently to Gaza being equivalent to the Warsaw Ghetto.

03/06/2010 - 12:41 PM

The Israeli government is holding official contacts with its Irish counterpart in a bid to convince the Rachel Corrie aid ship to unload its shipment of relief material to Gaza Strip in the Israeli-controlled port of Ashdod.

The Hebrew radio said on Thursday that Israel was trying to convince the Irish government and the captain of the Ship to divert its destination to Ashdod to avoid another attack at sea similar to the one against the Freedom Flotilla on Monday that ended with the killing and wounding of many solidarity activists on board at the hands of the attacking Israeli commandos.

The Irish vessel is expected to reach the Gaza coast within the coming 48 hours following a technical problem that delayed its arrival at the time of the other ships in the Freedom Flotilla.

A crew member said that the ship was adamant on continuing its voyage to Gaza despite the Israeli siege.

"We told our friends on board: "We will die, become martyrs, but never let us be shown... as the ones who used guns," Yildirim said on Thursday.

So whats all the fuss about?

A muslims greatest wish is to die a martyr and get those heavenly teenage virgins.

And even now they believe in this nonsense.

Fahel my friend. The account of Mr Yildrim reminds me of the deluded Egyptian claim that they had knocked out the Israel Air Force in the first few hours of the six day war.

They are highly emotional people who sometimes suffer from delusions in their ability to tell the truth.

The phrase "We will die, become martyrs" has no reference to the silly notion of virgins. Various religious faiths have the concept of martyrs. The Catholic faith probably has more martyrs than any other faith.

What about "The National Monument to the Jewish Martyrs of Belgium". There is also a fair bit of reference to martyrdom in Jewish texts over the years.

"They are highly emotional people" is somewhat of a generalisation, especially if you make any comparisons to the members of the extreme orthodox population in israel. I have yet to witness a more emotional bunch.

hay-they are highly emotional people who get very excitable very very quickly. I have witnessed this time and time again whilst working in Morocco.

martydom and the hevenly thoughts of awaiting virgins plays on the mind of those prepared to die for whatever cause. This is a fact.

I am sure that there is text on Jewish martyrdom. But the reference here is that those martyrs faced no choice. The muslim fundamentalists who participated in 9/11 had every choice. The suicide bombers had every choice. For every suicide bomber who completed his task-under orders from those who did not fancy dying- there was one who did not proceed through fear.

Interview with Jamal Elshayyal

Al Jazeera's Jamal Elshayyal has been released by Israeli authorities following Monday's deadly raid on the Mavi Marmara aid ship that was destined for Gaza.

Our producer, who reported from the ship as Israel launched the raid, was on the top deck when the ship was attacked.

Here, he tells his account of what happened.
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2010/06/201063123021327499.html

Israel faces child-abuse claims
News Middle East

Israel faces child-abuse claims



An international children's rights charity has said it has evidence that Palestinian children held in Israeli custody have been subjected to sexual abuse in an effort to extract confessions from them.

The Geneva-based Defence for Children International (DCI) has collected 100 sworn affadavits from Palestinian children who said they were mistreated by their Israeli captors.

Fourteen of the statements say they were sexually abused or threatened with sexual assault to pressure them into confessions.

Al Jazeera's correspondent in the West Bank, Nour Odeh, met one of the children, identified only as "N", who said he suffered sexual abuse at the hands of his interrogators.

Dismissive attitude

DCI officials say that when they complain to the Israeli military about the treatment of the children, their allegations are dismissed as untrue.

Now the organisation has submitted its evidence to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture to try and increase pressure on Israel to stamp out the alleged abuse.

According to our correspondent, Israel has two sets of laws: one for its citizens and another for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

IN depth


Blog: Children behind Israeli bars
Amnesty report slams global abuses
The price of impunity
UN Gaza children's camp attacked


All Palestinians, minors and adults, are tried in military courts.

Children between the ages of 12 and 16 are tried in Israeli military courts as children.


From 16 years onwards, Palestinians are tried as adults.


Human-rights groups have criticised Israel's detention policy with regard to children, which denies them access to their families or lawyers during the detention process.

Palestinian children arrested by Israel are not permitted to see their lawyers until they are in court.

There are currently 340 Palestinian children in Israeli jails, mostly convicted of throwing stones.


An Israeli military order stipulates that stone throwing carries a maximum jail sentence of 20 years, and there is no appeals process for decisions by Israeli military courts.

Israeli reaction

The Israeli military, in a written response, rejected DCI's allegations, saying the detention of minors is consistent with international law.

It said all court hearings involving minors in the West Bank were conducted before a special military court which specialises in dealing with issues pertaining to minors.

"Allegations regarding violence in the course of questioning should be raised during the trial or in a formal complaint," the military said.

"Regarding the presence of a lawyer during questioning of a minor, the Youth Law does not require such a presence, even within the state of Israel."

Bana Shoughry-Badarne, head of the legal department at the Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, an Israeli human-rights group, says there is a huge issue of impunity in Israel with regard to complaints against the security services.

"Our latest report, from 2009, shows that from the 600 complaints that were submitted to Israel's attorney-general, all of them were dismissed," she told Al Jazeera from Jerusalem.

"There was not even one criminal investigation."
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053082239109343.html

.

yuff
I have quite a few Arab friends and in particular Algerians. Almost all of them are very devout, but I would say that none of them believe in the virgin nonsense. My guess is that it is just a handful of Muslims that believe in that sort of rubbish and possibly not even them. It is similar propaganda that is put about concerning many other races and ethnic groups. These martyrdom video may go on about hoards of virgins, but it has no real bearing on anthing sensible. Neither the Koran nor the sayings of Muhammad have any references to such rewards for martyrdom. No one is going to be a suicide bomber for a few virgins. It is just a few mad clerics saying this.

The video report from Al Jazeera looks to be very credible. It seriously conflicts with Israel's version and indicates that live fire was from helicopters and neaby boatsa and at least one person was shot from above.

Haystack
The last incursion into Gaza killed huge numbers and devestated large numbers of dwellings.


that's what happens when Hamas deliberately use civilians as cover

just cowardice to risk their lives like that

that's gaza democracy for you

and most of these 'conflicting' reports are just outright lies

why are they lying

is that allowed in the Quran too ?

Camelot,

Do you think that you are "slightly" biased in your views of the world?

Do you?

There are plenty of independent reports on bad Israel behaviour in Gaza.

This is a conflict that Israel cannot 'win' with their current tactics. The world is gradually isolating Israel. The US doesn't condemn Israel outright because it is concerned about stability in the region. The US is about the only 'friend' they have and they are not a real friend. The Palestinians are not going to stop their struggle. Building on occupied land only makes the situation worse. Dismantling Arab houses in East Jerusalem is bound to casuse more trouble.

Hamas won't stop what they are doing. They are deliberately goading Israel into agressive action. Hamas now have Israel on a piece of string. Israel cannot defeat Hamas, the same way that the UK could not defeat the IRA. Negociations are the only way. It is no use Israel saying that stopping rocket attacks is a precondition to talks. Hamas regard building on occupied land plus a few other things such as the blockade as far more serious.

Camelot
Don't you think that Israel ever lies?