Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

In whose name are these actions be taken?

Hold you heads in shame!

Why do we need news reports from the BBC don't we all have tv.

not here in Santiago!

****Meet the Palestinian Terrorists In Gaza that Israel Claims to Fight*****

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuOMiseGCfs&feature=channel

Rule #1: In the Middle East, it is always the Palestinians that attack first, and it's always Israel who defends itself. This is called "retaliation".

Rule #2: The Palestinians are not allowed to kill Israelis. This is called "terrorism".

Rule #3: Israel has the right to kill Palestinian civilians; this is called "self-defense", or "collateral damage".

Rule #4: When Israel kills too many Palestinian civilians, the Western world calls for restraint. This is called the "reaction of the international community".

Rule #5: Palestinians do not have the right to capture Israeli military, not even 1 or 2.

Rule #6: Israel has the right to capture as many Palestinians as they want (around 10,000 to date being held without trial). There is no limit; there is no need for proof of guilt or trial. All that is needed is the magic word: "terrorism".

Rule #7: When you say "Hamas", always be sure to add "supported by Hezbo-Allah, Syria and Iran".

Rule #8: When you say "Israel", never say "supported by the USA, the UK, European countries and even some Arab regimes", for people (God forbid) might believe this is not an equal conflict.

Rule #9: When it comes to Israel, don't mention the words "occupied territories", "UN resolutions", "Geneva conventions". This could distress the audience of Fox, CNN, etc.

Rule #10: Israelis speak better English than Arabs. This is why we let them speak out as much as possible, so that they can explain rules 1 through 9. This is called "neutral journalism".

Rule #11: If you don't agree with these rules or if you favor the Palestinian side over the Israeli side, you must be a very dangerous anti-Semite. You may even have to make a public apology if you express your honest opinion

(Isn't democracy wonderful?)

Gaza - Article by Robert Fisk

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&th&emc=th

Fahel, you are more cynical than Cynic and the satire is apt.

I have just wandered around a few other boards. Didn't realise how restrained this one was.

Perhaps a look at some highlights of the Hamas Charter might help to define the problem further.

These are extracts from 'The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)'

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

As for the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion', I refer you to Wikipedia:

'The Protocols has been proven by respected international scholars, both Jewish and non-Jewish, to be a forgery,[1][2][3] a fraud[4][5] and a hoax,[6][7] as well as a clear case of plagiarism[8]. The original source has been clearly identified as an 1864 book by Maurice Joly entitled The Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, which was written as a satirical attack against the ambitions and methods of French Emperor Napoleon III.[9] In the book, Machiavelli represented Napoleon III, and described a series of steps that he intended to take to become ruler of the world. The Joly book was in turn based on material borrowed from a popular novel of the time by Euge Sue entitled The Mysteries of the People, in which those plotting to rule the world were the Jesuits instead of Napoleon III. Neither the Joly book nor the Sue book mentioned either Jews or Masons.'

MM. Rhetoric. Similar to many groups who would never negotiate and yet later. This reminds me of the mindless chants from some of the loonier Zionists groups.

I had a nephew, who worked in the middle east, one of the things he told me sometime ago, was when someone living there, said "Never in a thousand years", it usually meant not until next week.

From the posting above you seem to be support the Carnage and Murder, which is continuing in Gaza.

I await for your change to the more useful approach.

I believe from earlier postings you infer that I was anti-American. I think you are confusing, what I feel about the American people with this disastrous administration.

Even this administration is admitting its catastrophic policies. I hope that Obama's will be a breath of fresh air. He is picking up a poisoned chalice.


I have no wish to run down America, there are enough sensible critics within its own borders.

The choice of Leon Panetta to head the CIA is the best sign of change yet
By Andrew Sullivan


But Panettas core qualification at this particular moment was his public statements on the Bush-Cheney torture programme. This is what Panetta wrote in the Washington Monthly last year: (2008)

How did we transform from champions of human dignity and individual rights into a nation of armchair torturers? One word: fear. Fear is blinding, hateful and vengeful. It makes the end justify the means. And why not? If torture can stop the next terrorist attack, the next suicide bomber, then whats wrong with a little waterboarding or electric shock?

The simple answer is the rule of law. Our constitution defines the rules that guide our nation. . .

Those who support torture may believe that we can abuse captives in certain select circumstances and still be true to our values. But that is a false compromise. We either believe in the dignity of the individual, the rule of law, and the prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment, or we dont. There is no middle ground.

Fred: Rhetoric, you say.

But those quotes are from the fundamental "constitution" document of Hamas, not some throwaway speech (which would more suit the description of rhetoric).

As always, you come over as an apologist for Islamic extremism. I assume you have a soft spot for -- or at least an "understanding" of -- what "provoked" the 7/7 London bombers.

Straight to the point!, i beleive that the jews of Israel have a right and a duty to protect themselves and their families against any terrorist. They are the allies of a civilised world, including ours.

Boxerdogthats one point of viewand I think you have misused the word civilised?

By civilised i mean a civilised colony of whatever which are free to flourish and not live in fear. Lets not forget it is Israel that are the target of terrorist here and are only defending its people.

boxerdog

We've done all that. You still seem to be misusing some terms:

protect, terrorist, civilised, defending, free.

I suggest you at least read some of the previous postings on the thread.

They've gone a long way to educating me. They might do the same for you.

ExecLine.I was going to answer boxerdog and noticed your post was word for word with my thoughtsI wont bother job done!

boxerdog-spot on-I could not agree with you more.

I was looking at the recent demo and the faces in the crowd-I would say 90% would be of Mid Eastern/Arabic desendancy.
It pains me to see them bring their imported hatred in to this country,and scares me at the same time when I recall 7/7 as well as other failed terrorist plans which we do not hear about for obvious reasons.

Yes we do have sympathy for civilian casualties-this is a human reaction when we see the TV war on our screens.
But at the same time we have to be mindful of the enemy within-of which there are plenty.
I believe it will not be too long before another atrocity is committed in this country in the name of Islam and revenge.

I dont read about Jews going about attacking Muslims in this country,but I do read about Muslims attacking rabbis and other religious Jews, who are an easy target on their way to prayers in London.

Thank you. It would be correct to say i am not exactly up to date. I an not an educated person but i was brought up to know right from wrong, and terrorism for whatever reason is wrong, does anyone disagree?. Hamas may be primitive in terms of armourment but their desire to kill is evident. Israel have decided enough is enough. Afterall it is Hamas who are responsible for the civilian deaths. shielding behind woman and children.
Another thing how on earth does threating the lives of jewish citizens in the uk. such as Alan Sugar be legitimate. The protests here in the UK. should be ceased with force if need be. Yes it would be fair to say i'm pro Israel as if they are defeated who would the finger of muslim terrorism point to next.

Sivad,
Don't you think the murdering or assassination of Palestinian "political" leaders in Lebanon, the West Bank and Gaza by the Israeli "snatch" and "death" squads over the last years, has been MURDER and against international law.

I am not disputing that the Palestinians have been less than perfect.

This present war is crazy, will settle nothing and eventually will lead to the negotiating table.

At that table, unless Israel negotiates in honesty, recognises its previously broken promises and withdraws from illegally confiscated lands etc, allows for an independent viable Palestinian state. Pays compensation or restitution for the damage it is presently wreaking in Gaza, then there will be another return to hostilities.

I think it crazy not to accept the above, if not in total at least partially.

I think Obama or America policies are in flux, but the present method of party funding in America, has been changed and in the future there may be less dependency on the Zionist lobby. Also, with the American economic outlook, the American public will be less willing to finance the Israeli war machine.

The USA armament industry, may have to look to others in the Middle East who can pay their bills.

I have been reading this thread (and the other one!) with interest and had decided not to make any comment one way or the other. In these situations, it doesn't always help to declare or imply your loyalties because sympathisers and antagonists on both sides will never be converted to your way of thinking. However, I was touched by ExecLine's honesty in post 255:

I suggest you at least read some of the previous postings on the thread.

They've gone a long way to educating me. They might do the same for you.

This has prompted me to raise my head above the parapet (just this once) to make a very simple point about a certain item of rhetoric too often repeated without answer. So many posters and news agencies have talked of Hamas hiding behind woman and children to launch their rockets and implying that to an extent the civilian casualties are therefore their own fault.

Gaza is in the top five of the most densely populated regions in the world. Exactly where do you believe Hamas could launch their rockets from that wouldn't involve being close to a civilian structure? (and I'm not condoning their actions). Perhaps Israel could remove a section of the wall that they built around the strip to allow Hamas out into the desert region to be away from civilians when they fire their rockets.

Where do you think Israel has it's military bases and associated buildings? Almost every jewish settlement has an army barrack and ammunitions depot within it. So should we not also say that Israel is hiding behind their woman and children.