Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Israelis Enjoy Massacre (Shocking)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkCBK4-5tRI&feature=player_embedded

What doea it tell you when the Arab world rises up against its dictator leaders-and the only country in the region which remains quiet and stable is little israel. Why? because it is the only true democracy in the region.

At last we can see the true nature of the Arab. he thinks nothing of killing his fellow Arab. Israel knows this and knows what will happen if the Arabs get their way. Israel will never initiate attacks-only responds. I just wish she would respond harder.

Assad nust be the next to go. Iran will suffer as syria is a close ally. Hamas and Hizbollah will suffer as the new democratic leadership will not tolerate terror groups in Damascus.

Gaddafi first, Assad next.

Fred an antisemite is someone with a pathological hatred and fear of those born Jewish. As Israel is the only Jewish state in the world, by definition an anti Israeli is an antisemite. Thats it-no question about it.

Israel is botched job of a democracy. It is a good example of where proportional voting can get you. It has a coalition government that is held to ransom by the religious extremest elements.

I haven't notice thast Fred is antisemitic. I doubt that he hates or fears prople born Jewish as you put it That would be a very illogical point of view. i don't hate Jews or even Israelis. I don't like Israel's government and the extremist elements of the country. Being anti Israel doesnt make you anti semetic. Apart form anything there are plenty of secular Israelis and plenty of Israelis who don't agree with their government. Are Israelis who dislike Israel's behaviour also anti simetic.

Yuff.

I agree with Hays response.

From past friendships, people who I played sport with and individuals I trained and worked with, i.e., people who knew me reasonably well would I think support me in that I am not anti-Semitic.

In fact on a few occasions it was Jews who pointed out to me that others I knew were Jews. It hadn't been a factor entering into our relationships.

Within, the group I later recognised as Jewish, there were a few who shared a mutual dislike of each other.

C'est la vie.


But I do have reservation about their religion and beliefs. and have similar reservations about Christianity and Islamic "beliefs".

Also, in general, I would prefer a secular democracy.

However, since starting this thread I have become more conscious of "Jews" in political life and those in the media and business world.

I dislike this fact that i have become aware of such and entity, as I have always preferred to judge people, or groups of people in the way they present themselves, or by their actions.

(If I am in a culture of which I am not cognisant, I generally remain cautious, until I understand the variances.

Referring to the present Israeli administration. I think they are acting inhumanely, arrogantly and being abusive to the rights of other human beings. Also, I think they are piling up the problems for themselves in the future.

They are also running out of their time and make it more difficult for themselves to accommodated.

This is a pity, because many of Jews and Israelis have so much to share with and give to others.

Fred-thankyou for your comments. The Israeli administration is elected from the people by the people whether secular or religious. The Govt is a democracy through and through-perhaps even more democratic than the racist USA. Inhumane? No way. Caring yes.

Let me in to a little secret. My sister left these shores in 1974 to live the dream and escape tha anti Jewish sentiment that always was present in the English middle and upper clases to some degree. Hay is an example of this despite what he says. My sister bore 4 children, 2 were boys. The youngest now aged 21 is a captain in the Israeli air force and flies fighters. He is a kind and gentle boy. He would neverknowingly hurt anyone. The rules set for him in engagement are very very strict. Every life is to be valued. the army operates on the same principle.

It is so very different to what we now see in the Arab uprising. I have worked in Morocco and seen the violence with my own eyes. The Govt are run by despots desperate to stay in power to line their own pockets. Violence against their own people is commonplace. So is torture.

I want to see a new middle east with all the dictators overthrown. Democratic leaders in place who view the fact that peace with Israel will work. The people on a one to one respect each other. It is the leaders who rule by fear that prevent peace.

The people in these Arab countries have put up with dictatorships for a long time. Soon, hopefully, they will be domocracies. Things may well change for Israel. Countries like Jordan and Egypt only had peace treaties with Israel because their governments were effectively being bribed by the US. The improved relations with Israel were not the will of the people. Hopefully all the peace treaties will be scrapped and relations between the rabs and Israel will be based on what the populations want.

The subject of the Palestinians has come up time and time again recently during the uprisings. It was a common subject raised during the Egyptian troubles. For instance a Hamas delegation met with the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces in Egypt a couple of days ago. The meeting was to discuss the lifting of the Gaza siege and opening the Rafah crossing on the border between Egypt and the Gaza Strip.

I don't see how you you me as an example of anti Jewish sentinment. I only displike Israel and its behaviour. One of the directors (that I appointed) of my company was Jewish and so was my best man. I grew up and went to school in a Jewish area of London and at times the majority of my friends were Jewish. I have been to services in synagogues. I also used to have an office in Hatton Garden and many friends amongst the orthodox Jews there. I have certainly never witnessed any anti Jewish sentiment in any circumstance in the UK. I asked two close Jewish friends this morning that question. They were both baffled by the need to even ask it. Neither of them has experienced anything like it.

Well I've experienced plenty of anti-Jewish sentiment in the UK although admitedly not in the last 10 years or so. It started at primary school and went right through to university and beyond. Nothing particularly nasty in the scheme of things but it was there nevertheless. Also I can remember perhaps five years ago an attack of vandalism at Jewish cemetry where my grandparents are buried where a lot of tombstones were kicked over and other damage caused.

every country becomes more nationalistic in times of economic hardship ..... the jews in england have been a prime target for prejudice or even expulsion since the middle ages or earlier, and there is still most assuredly an element of latent anti-semitism, whether real or "unintended"; the catholics have also had their (un!)fair share, and now it is the turn of the asians, blacks, irish gypsies, croatians etc etc - take your pick!



to answer the other point ..... of course israel is a democratic country, though i'm fairly sure that those of palestinian birth/parentage are disenfranchised, though that might effectively be by their own choice

to an outsider, this nonsense where there seem to be 78 parties with 1 seat each is a total disaster, leading to some appalling radicals often holding the balance of power ..... i'm surprised that there hasn't been a device instituted whereby if "your" candidate does not secure say 5% of the initial vote, then he is automatically eliminated .... somehow, i don't think the status quo would allow that variation to be introduced!

I think these days you would find more anti Islamic sentiment. Certainly in London, Jewish communities are part of the fabric. I am part Irish and I can remember anti Irish sentiment when I was young. There used to be 'No Coloured or Irish' signs outside properties to rent. I sent an email to a close Jewish friend this morning that I have known for about 40 years. He is quite a strict follower of the religious rules. This is his reply a few minutes ago.

"I can't say I've ever experienced personal
anti-semitism. Except being taunted by someone
with a bacon sandwich.

(Sounds like a Monty Python sketch - how
to defend yourself against a man attacking you
with a banana)"

Cynic
Your point regarding the number of parties and the proportional voting is quite relevant at the moment when we are about to consider AV. It will almost certainly allow BNP etc to gain Parliamentary seats. That can't be a good thing.

People do not like weak government. Italy has had an average of one government a year since the war due to its constitution and voting system. The results is that very few laws get passed. Burlusconi's election changed that and now they have a strong government. He is clearly corrupt and a bit crazy. It just show what the public will put up with to get a strong government that can pass legislation.

if the AV referendum is a straight yes/no then i think i shall feel obliged to vote "no" even though the present system is singularly unfair insofar as it doesn't remotely allow a gov't that represents at least the majority of the populace

I think you are right about London Haystack but London is just part of the UK. Jews living in London and those who have never experienced anti-semitism are the lucky ones. It's not very nice and surprised you are suggesting it is and has not been an issue in the UK.

isaacs - i often feel that the jews, like the muslims, perceive prejudice where there is none, or certainly no intended malice ..... for example, would you regard it as anti-semtic or take exception to someone (a goy!) at your golf club, putting on a ham jewish accent and putting his arms round your shoulders, exclaiming, "my favourite yid!"?

i can't speak for muslims, but they certainly often appear to be far more thin-skinned that an educated and/or cosmopolitan person should be .... on the other hand, i certainly tease my jordanian/palestinian "uncle" when i meet up with him in abu dhabi

I haven't noticed that muslims are thinned skinned at all any more than Jews are. I think the difference is that these would be people that I know well or you know well. Any comments either way are taken in a humourous way. Jewish people are more intergrated into UK society, although Turnkish muslims are fairly well integrated. There are different degrees of being a muslim. Most Turkish muslims that I know do not follow the religious rules very much.

The Arab mulsims are far more religious in the UK. Pakistan muslims are aslo quite religious. The extent to which muslims are sensitive seems to vary in proportion to their adherence to their religion and how well integrated they are. Orthodox Jews that I know and I do not know many are a different kettle of fish. It is very difficult to maintain a friendship with an orthodox Jew as they rarely socialise outside their group. They don't eat out in restaurants or visit non orthodox people. It is somewhat like the closed muslim groups that exist in the midlands and further north only more so.

Cynic - yes I would take exception to that although I accept that there are a lot worse things that could be said or done. I would also take exception to someone putting his arms around somebody who is overweight and saying "my favourite fatso" or to somebody who is gay saying "my favourite poofter" or two somebody who is Japanese and saying "my favourite slit eyed friend." Nobody on the receiving end feels good about getting that kind of comment and if no malice is intended then what is intended? It is hardly a sign of friendship.

One example I remember from university is sitting in the college bar shortly after getting a job offer from a big American bank talking with some friend about it and somebody on the next table who hadn't not got beyond first round interviews said "I bet he only got it because he is a fucking yid." That comment in itself is perhaps harmless enough and no damage done but it says something about how that person thinks and in the years after I wonder how he behaved himself at work with respect to Jewish people when he was in a position of power.

More than just words....

The cemetery desecration is the 115th since 1990 and highlights a sharp rise in anti-Semitic incidents in Britain over the past five years. There were 532 anti-Semitic incidents last year, the highest since records began 20 years ago.

That item was in 2005. I don't know what the climate was then.

It is hardly a sign of friendship ..... as it happens it is and is the customary greeting from the guy in question who is a very dear friend of mine ..... what amused me no end was that an indian member, with whom i am also very friendly, took great exception and was staggered at my hilarity!

I think remarks depend on the intent with which they are said.

I had a Jewish friend who liked bacon sandwiches and had believed him to be quite orthodox and he certainly seemed to celebrate various festivals.

Also like Jewish humour, which is of self deprecating, similar in some ways to Celtic humour.

But Hays I know now why we don't get.

My family swam back.

An opinion poll conducted by an Israeli public opinion institute has revealed that the Israeli youth is now more racist and right-wing than in previous years and is far less committed to democracy.

According to the results of the survey carried out by the Dahaf Institute, the importance of democracy fell from second place in 1998 (26%) to third place in 2010 (14.3%). First place was usurped in 2010 by the idea of "Jewishness" as a national goal, scoring 26% after having been in third place in 1998 with a ratio of 18.1%.

The poll revealed that 46% of Jewish settler youths who responded said they would prefer that basic political rights be withdrawn from Arabs such as the right to be elected to the Knesset. Similarly, 25% of respondents said they felt hatred toward Arabs, while 12% said that they felt fear toward them. It also revealed that 60% of Jewish youths said they would prefer "strong leadership" to "strong authority".