Fred1new
- 06 Jan 2009 19:21
Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?
If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?
Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?
What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?
averagedown
- 30 Nov 2012 10:36
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HAMAS is the gaza equivalent of the BNP. It's the 1930's all over again. Anti semitism is again fashionable. Like Hitler and all before the justification is that 'the jews brought it on themselves'. Nothing changes.
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 11:05
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Cynic
Hague also required a guarantee that Palestine would not use the ICC. I saw him give that statement just after PMQs yesterday.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 11:09
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not quite as simple as that! ..... just to be slightly pedantic, hamas and its allies aren't exactly anti-semitic (the arabs and their "cousins" are also of course semitic races) but more anti-israel and its existence
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 11:12
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Here is the verbatim statement
http://m.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2012/11/28/william-hague-statement-in-full-on-palestine
We explained that while there is no question of the United Kingdom voting against the resolution, in order to vote for it we would need certain assurances or amendments.
The first is that the Palestinian Authority should indicate a clear commitment to return immediately to negotiations without preconditions.
This is the essential answer to the charge that by moving the resolution the Palestinians are taking a path away from negotiations.
Given the great difficulty in restarting negotiations in recent years, and the risk that some will see this resolution as a step that is inconsistent with such negotiations, this commitment is indispensable to us.
The second assurance relates to membership of other specialised UN agencies and action in the International Criminal Court.
Our country is a strong supporter across all parties of international justice and the International Criminal Court. We would ultimately like to see a Palestinian state represented throughout all the organs of the United Nations. However we judge that if the Palestinians were to build on this resolution by pursuing ICC jurisdiction over the occupied territories at this stage it could make a return to negotiations impossible. This is extremely important given that we see 2013 as a crucial year for the reasons I have described for the middle east peace process.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 11:18
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thanks - an interesting read ..... it's getting the sides to start meaningful negotiations would be be more than useful, but even then as in ireland, a mutually (un)acceptable conclusion will take several (many) years
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 11:19
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What it means is that Palestine has to talk peace while Israel continues to steal the land that the discussions are about. Israel can continue to steal the land and oppress the Palestinians without being referred to the ICC.
Fat chance.
Fred1new
- 30 Nov 2012 11:21
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It would seem to be a case of, we will negotiate with you as long as you don't take our criminal record into consideration, or ask for the goods we have purloined off you to be returned.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 11:28
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HS ..... you're better than a sleeping pill at times ..... the ICC thing is almost a side issue, though should the palestinians pursue that prematurely, it will inevitably stop the chance of starting ANY meaningful negotiations or discussions towards peace
as i implied earlier this morning, there will be a massive amount of discussion and negotiation being conducted behind closed doors - as there were for ireland ..... the "face" for domestic consumption may well appear very different
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 11:30
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It is not a question of the past. The Palestinians are more interested in Israel's behaviour from today onwards. There is one exception to that and it is the cause of the death of Yasser Arafat. The Palestinians have already indicated that Israeli involvement would mean recourse to the ICC.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 11:37
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yeah yeah yeah ..... you know all of course
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 16:11
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As Palestine gets its vote, Israel announced the building of 3,000 new settlement units in Jerusalem and The West Bank. This is specifically against commitments given to Obama. Israel certainly knows how to inflame the situation. Not much chance of a return to the peace process now.
Settlers have been complaining today to the Israeli government that their status has been effectively changed to that of occupying a foreign state. They want Israel to annex all settlements to be part of Israel.
Once again Israel puts itself on the wrong side of history and world opinion.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 16:30
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groan groan, and not at you for once HS, for i assume that story is correct ..... i'm not sure whether or not building in jerusalem is particularly provocative, but west bank is just plain "rude" ...... i am sure it will not be in the too distant future that someone will punch israel on the nose, though through the wallet would be much the most effective
Fred1new
- 30 Nov 2012 16:54
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Cynic.
The BBC confirms the building of buildings.
"through the wallet would be much the most effective"
The sooner the better, as they are showing complete disregard of world opinion and decency and increasing alienation of the Israelis.
I hope in the coming Israeli election that the Netty is rejected, but perhaps I am again to optimistic.
But. sanctions are probably on the table, after resolution of the fiscal cliff.
Hope Obama has crampons on.
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 18:04
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They are building in East Jerusalem, which is provocative as it is Palestinian territory. The specific area is known as E1.
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 18:06
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Netenyahu is at his most popular. He seems to think he can do what he wants. The only hope is that he seriously annoys Obama and the larger world community.
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 19:28
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With the new settlements and Israel's disregard for opinion must mean it is time for stronger methods. As a start Israel should be treated similarly to South Africa during the apartheid days. That would mean boycotts by most of the countries in the world and banning from all sporting and cultural events. No airlines to fly to Israel.
cynic
- 30 Nov 2012 20:39
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for my part, i would like to see the leaders of the uk jewish community standing up and voicing the opinion of their congregation, whether in favour of israel's actions (would assuredly hope not!) or in condemning them
this is no more than we expect(ed) of the muslim community in recent times and the catholic leaders in ireland
Haystack
- 30 Nov 2012 21:10
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It gets worse.
At some stage there is going to be a hell of a backlash.
Israel Threatens To “Reoccupy’ West Bank
Israeli member of Knesset, Vice Prime Minister and Minister for Regional Development and the development of the Negev and Galilee, Silvan Shalom, threatened that Israel would reoccupy the West Bank in response to the Palestinian bid at the United Nations General Assembly that won the Palestinians a nonmember observer state status.
During an interview with the Israeli Radio, Shalom, of the Likud Party of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, accused the Palestinian Authority (P.A.) in the occupied West Bank, of violating the Oslo Agreement, and said that heading to the UN effectively “voided the peace deal, an issue that allows Israel to conduct unilateral moves”.
The Palestine News Network (PNN) has reported that Shalom threatened that Israel would enforce its military control on the entire West Bank, and would link the Ma'ale Adumim (the biggest settlement bloc in the West Bank) with occupied East Jerusalem by confiscating large areas of Palestinian lands.
cynic
- 01 Dec 2012 12:13
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The British Foreign Secretary said he was "extremely concerned" at the plans to create 3,000 new homes, warning it would make the two-state solution "difficult to achieve".
The US government also criticised Israel for the move.
"This administration - like previous administrations - has been very clear with Israel that these activities set back the cause of a negotiated peace," Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in Washington.
so apart from a few critical words, what will US gov't do about it?
f*ck all is better than a racing certainty!
a simple withdrawal of some aid would concentrate israeli minds no end
indeed, with BO in for another 4 years, he need not worry his head about the squawking jewish NY cabal, and some firm action would undoubtedly do USA's international credibility a great deal of good
Haystack
- 01 Dec 2012 12:53
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The serious problem about this particular settlement is that if it goes ahead then it cuts the West Bank in two and prevents a large number of Palestinians from reaching Jerusalem. This is a deliberate plan to stop Palestine from having East Jerusalem as its capital. It is the reason that the US obtained promises from Israel to avoid settling the E1 area.
Israel originally said that they would punish Palestine by withholding the payment of taxes that they collect on their behalf. The Arab community said last week that they would make up the shortfall. Israel was so hell bent on punishment that they say they will steal more land. They have also announced the speeding up of 1,000 planning applications.
How can you have peace talks about dividing up a cake while one party is eating the cake before the talks and expects to continue eating while the talks take place?
Once again the US will do nothing to stop this. William Hague has also condemned this move by Israel.
Perhaps the US and UK may now see the folly of not voting with Palestine yesterday. Once again Israel demonstrates its arrogance. It is about time that the world community took some action.