This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

Tweenie,, I sort of agree. My big argument is, if I or others do have a concern about some of issues brought up by the likes barwoni (do you agree with him or not??) does that make me a racist??? I know lots of people say they are not racists and then come out with xenophobic clap trap. But when can some us who have generally honest opinion that all people should be equally treated and not be discriminated against be able to express any concerns we have.

One example could be, as i have said, all should be treated equally but I have a fear that lots of Muslim men (some white men as well) do not treat their woman folk as equal, is that a genuine concern or is that a racist remark??

The way barwoni put his argument does seem a little one sided. One said this page was well argued and debated. Could anyone put a well debated argument against what he has put. I could not because I have never been to any of the countries, do not know anybody who has been to any of those countries so therefore have no idea of how the brits or any foriegners are intergrated or treated in that country.

I lived in the most advanced of Arab states (The UAE), and I can tell you that racism and sexism are very firmly held to be virtuous.
A quick scan through the Gulf News newspaper (up to 2001 anyway) would advertise a job, and then list salaries dependent not on ability or experience, but on passport and sex.
Even queueing to pay the phone bill saw 3 different queues in Abu Dhabi. 1 for men, 1 for women and 1 For Arab men only. The Arab men and women queue was staffed by dozens of staff. The "everyone else" queue was the longest and had fewest staff.
No lie. Thats just how it was. Even my favourite bar (PJ's, next door to the Al Ain Palais - for those of you familiar with the place) had a sign out front saying members only. When I asked how I got membership the doorman told me that my face was membership. Whites and Arabs only!!!
Alan

tweenie please copy and paste the post you found racist.

That would help to find which race was being degenerated and by whom?

Thanks in anticipation.

Barwoni. You've missed the point.
I'm a racist, Everyones racist to some degree. It's about knowing your shortcomeings and what you're prepared to live with.
Or would you claim different?
It's the old analogy of the bloke saying he's not a racist because 'he's got black friends.'

See Alans point above. Everyones racist. I blame the lefties personally who compartmentalize society...........I don't want to be referred to as an ethnic minority........as I don't stand on Street corners wearing sandals and selling trinkets to toffy nosed tourists, who've been in the sun too long.

did it hit a nerve? LOL

tweenie - 19 Aug 2006 20:35 - 644 of 644
Barwoni. You've missed the point.
I'm a racist.


Which race do you not like tweenie, no need to elaborate, a simple black,white,brown,red or yellow will do?

tweenie - 19 Aug 2006 11:20 - 640 of 644
After reading the last page, theres more than a faint whiff of racist xenophobia about this blogg.
What was a well argued and debated topic seems to have degenerated into a political statement from the BNP. "Were not racist -honest."
sad. very sad.

Again you've missed the point.
I can and do judge people OF ALL RACES according to stereotypes (blame middle class upbringing and tv).
Usually, due to my current job, it's because they are thick as shit, lying robbing scum and would gladly sell their grandmother for a buck.
It's a failing on my part , which I am able to admit freely. I can live with it, because in the greater context I try my best not to allow my prejudices to cloud my judgement or professionalism.
Basically , what I'm saying is: if someone is outside your immediate social circle , regardless of colour or creed , you will treat them different- thats the human condition. However , unlike the BNP , I don't take pleasure from it or believe peoples or another race are lesser than myself. Which if you reflect on what has been written on some posts , is the underlying message that comes across.
As for which race, If only it was that simple: I'm a true member of the UN, I can love/hate every race/religion for a variety of reasons.
LOL

we all do, Tweenie.
Something that has been forgotten by the hand wringing liberals is that we are no more than monkeys who learned to talk, really.
We all have preconceived ideas on other races, and, with the exception of extremists this is based on personal experience. That is an animal survival trait. The prejudice is not necassarily negative, that depends on your own experiences. For instance, I view West Indians as gregarious, outgoing and expressive, and I approach and treat them as such.I view Asians as very polite, but somewhat shady in their business and financial dealings, and treat them as such.
If that makes me a racist, so be it, but it is based entirely on my previous interactions with those communities.
there is a place for this kind of racism in society. For instance offender profiling, where the security services at airports are told to pay closer attention to groups of male passengers, rather than old ladies and families with kids. Particularly male groups of asians. Its not that old ladies are incapable of carrying out terrorist atrocities, its that a group of 3 asian males are far more likely to be planning it. Old ladies are capable of smuggling heroin into the UK, but single males are far more likely. I read of an Asian police officer who is up in arms about this idea, but it is simple common sense really, to target your resources at the greatest threat. The PC brigade have got it badly wrong by holding their dogma as an article of blind faith.
Stop and search is another topical one where the PC brigade have badly misjudged the issue of racism to the detriment of society. Ask any police officer and they will tell you that to stop and search a person, they must be able to demonstrate that the person was in an area where a crime had just been commited and matched the description of the person who commited the crime. I understand that in certain areas a disproportionate number of black youths are stopped, but this is because the witnesses of the crimes are giving a description of a black youth! No-one is to blame for that except the people commiting the crime. It seems an eminently reasonable policy to me.
The UK is not endemically racist. Nor is it instituationally so. The ones who shout racism at every turn and bend over backwards to make sure no-one is offended make life very difficult for the minority groups by ensuring that the resident population feel aggrieved by their presence.
Example; I live just a few miles from the homes of the July 7th bombers. About 1 year before that event, a cold sandwich takeaway in the area applied for planning permission to sell hot food. The council granted the permissions with a condition that the takeaway installed an enormous steel chimney. Due to the fabric and positioning of the building, this was economically not viable. The owner realised that this chimney was a great deal higher than those usually required, and that those normally fitted would be cheaper. When he approached the planning department to ask their reasoning for this chimney, he was told that it was in order to ensure the smell of cooking bacon would be disipated and not offend the local Muslim population. Enraged, he commissioned a survey of the local Muslim population to see how they felt, and if they would object. Not one respondent objected to being able to smell cooking bacon. The council thought police had got it badly wrong, but stood by their decision on the grounds of racial harmony.
In many other countries, particularly outside of the EU, what the PC brigade would call racism is perfectly normal and acceptable. From the Aussies and Americans refusing to provide state care for non nationals to the Arabs and their apartheid system for non Arabs. The view held in these countries is pretty much along the lines of "while we welcome you to our home (hospitality is the greatest virtue according to Islam), we would ask that you respect our home and our house rules. Should you not respect those rules and our way of life, then like any house guest you will be asked to leave". I really don't have a problem with that approach, and I guess that most immigrants to the UK would have no problem with that, providing they did not have the thought police telling them they should take issue with it.
alan

Good post alan. Balanced.-
AS for stop and search. LOL. The biggest waste of public money, police time and resources is the introduction of stop and account forms.
With more than a passing knowledge of police powers and procedures , I have to agree that the VAST majority of coppers turn over people because they have grounds to do so. It has nothing to do with colour or creed.
most will tell you 'the JOB is F**cked"
Since politicians are intent on running it as a business, they expect an end product? the days of bobbies having time to address the REAL concerns of the public are gone. The police (officers on street) are too busy being run ragged chasing unachieveable targets , so their Supt's and chief constables can get bonuses and politicians can tell us crime is dropping and the tabloids can continue putting the 'willies' up everyone..

So what you are now saying tweenie, is in fact there was no post that was racist or xenophobic, would be a idea then to retract post 640.. Thanks in advance.

barwoni - 18 Aug 2006 17:24 - 637 of 649
I got a chain email this morning, which I'm supposed to pass on to twenty people. Please do the same. Thanking you!

If you are ready for the adventure of a lifetime, TRY THIS:

Enter Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi, Nigeria, etc illegally. Never mind immigration Quotas, visas, international law, or any of that nonsense.

Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family.

Demand bilingual nurses and doctors. Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc. Procreate abundantly.

Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive behaviour with, "It is a cultural thing; you wouldn't understand."

Keep your British identity strong.

Fly the your national flag from your rooftop, or proudly display it in your front window, or on your car bumper.

Speak only English at home and in public, and insist that your children do likewise.

Demand classes on English culture in the Muslim school System.

Demand a local country driver license. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimise your unauthorised, illegal, presence in Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iraq.

Drive around with no liability insurance and ignore local traffic Laws.

Insist that local country law enforcement teaches English to all its Officers.

Organise protest marches against your host country, inciting violence against non-Brits, non-Christians, and the government that let you in.

Good luck! You'll soon be dead.

Because it will never happen in Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iraq or any other country in the world except right here in the UK. For we are run by soft, politically correct politicians, that are too scared to "offend" anyone.

If you agree, pass it on.

If you don't, go ahead and try the above in Pakistan, Afghanistan or Iraq.

peddling the king of crap the BNP are infamous for.
Yes your a racist. get over it. LOL
your welcome, in advance.

Which race is being degenerated? Now if you said I have a problem with certain religions, that could be true.........

Mainly because I am a true unbeliever.........black and non UK person..

Reason I am posting facts about who and which countries are causing strife in this world is to justify the right Tony/George have for waging war on these murderers and terrorists......Not as some on this thread believe that as per header! Is it time that Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

He should be congratulated for taking the war to the enemy even though many think it has lowered his popularity.. The silent majority in the UK did right to elect him three times.

TOM TEEPEN


But one thing is becoming clear: this terrorism won't end until Islam makes, and acts on, a decisive commitment to expunge violent religious extremists from its community and definitively disallows the twisted theology that provokes their violence.

Aggressive defenses, particularly determined intelligence at home and, crucially, unstinting intelligence sharing among nations, despite any other matters that estrange them from one another, can quash some attacks and sharply raise the costs for the ones that succeed.

But terrorism can last indefinitely when its own community is less than wholly intolerant of it. That is so far painfully the case with Islam.

Sure, most Muslims and their mainstream leadership now dutifully declare their opposition to, and disappointment with, each new outrage against the innocent. But that's usually only on a "since you asked ..." basis.

And it often comes with an ambivalence born of secret pleasure in seeing the big guys get it.

Terrorism can have a great future in such hesitations.

Or the condemnations come bearing caveats: "the Palestinians," you know, or "disrespect" or any of a sing-song of nurtured grievances. But even grave injustices - and aren't there always some laying to hand? - offer no brief to stint against mass murder after mass murder done in Allah's name.

Where is the fury that by now should have average Muslims competing to turn in the most suspects the fastest? A few imams here and there have spoken with convincing ardor against extremism and the violence that it claims as both its privilege and duty, but imams from Chicago, Kano and London to Jakarta and beyond should be straining like athletes to see who can write the most righteous and withering fatwa on Osama bin Laden and all the al Qaida leadership.

Why are Pakistanis and Saudis not demanding that their governments close the schools that tutor students in paranoia and hate and send them into the world with fuses primed for any spark? Where is the culture of rejection that Islam so needs?

The passivity, almost as much as the terrorists' savagery, threatens to make Islam a pariah faith, driving it into a deepening isolation and pulling its unoffending adherents in with it.

This country was built on immigration and was not just open to it but enticed it. Once we got over our lapse into bigoted immigration quotas in the early 20th century, we largely took up anew that welcoming heritage.

But so many nations - Holland, France, now England - have been abused by Muslim immigrants venomous to their new country that nowhere can Muslims any longer expect not to be examined closely on that point. Sorry, but it's Uncle Sam, not Uncle Sap.

If Islam would determine to be rid of the rationalizations underlying, and the excuses alibiing, terror, if it would expel its psychopaths posing as prophets, Islam could redeem itself and although the terror committed under its cover might not end quickly, it would end far faster than it ever will otherwise.

So basically what your saying is all the worlds major problems are the the muslims fault?
nettes, barwoni. Willkommen zum neuen Vorlagenrennen.

You'd think somebody would have learnt something from history.

I appreciate society needs someone to blame. for 50 years it was the evil eastern blok.
Now its the muslims/jews.
NEXT chinese?

If BRITAIN had actively dealt with the extremist arab nationals when they first came to uk 10-15 years ago, we would'nt be in this boat now.
It's because the gov't turned a blind eye, that we now find ourselves in this predicament.
(please -don't play the seeking asylum card- Most of them were terrorists wanted in their own countries- you can't take the moral high ground , then invade other countries on susp' of WMD's or seeking extremists).
Basically WE (myself included) could'nt be arsed and as long as they peddled their filth, lies and destruction abroad , we could'nt give a monkey's.
From speaking with people in the know, theres 10 years worth of work for the security services to do.. starting today.
Hows that for messed up policy.

edited to remove foul language (would/'nt want to offend anyone.)
Don't worry bamoani -won't post again. Your post below , summed it up.
"True colours?can't take the country out of the person?"- I'm white and English and proud of what this country was and has the potential to be again.
LOL

tweenie squelch.........True colours, abuse and profanity, you can take a boy out of the country, but you can not take the country out of the boy.......

i'll get me coat!

Bawoni, I think you have well and truly been "Hoisted by his own petard".

I believe that 'this terrorism' will not cease until long after the western countries have stopped their terrorist activities in the middle east and remember that 1 Arab life is worth as much as 1 US (or GB) life. The recent tactics used in Lebanon, to wantonly bomb civilians and the nations infrastructure in such a disproportionate way is testament to how US and UK condone the killing of innocents.

Just think how the US would have reacted if the UK military bombed the hell out of Northern Ireland in response to the numerous IRA bombings in the UK? They certainly wouldn't have backed the UK military to do this.

The military need these escapades to test their new weapons. Watch Farenheit 9/11 for an insight into who and how the US benefit from military activities abroad.

When all civilian lives are guaranteed protection, then we shall be able to walk safely in the UK, without fear of retalitory suicide bombings.

REF 637 - I couldnt agree more.
We should do our bit and accept immigrants as should all developed countires. Bending over backwards and getting fu***d, however is going a little to far.
If they are not happy here and do not with to meld with the locals, then there is a perfectly good plane and the airport heading home.
This whole situation has gone beyond a joke, the politicians who have always been to scared to make a decision, are now so paranoid, its bordering on the ridiculous.

It seems everyone is to scared to be honest in case they are percieved as racist.

Aye, won't be long before Rumsfeld and the hawks have their way - a US friendly dictator in Iraq. Seen it all before, the Shah in Iran etc etc.

The door is open for anyone to leave the country if they don't like conditions in UK. Otherwise vote for change.

Vote for someone that can think for themselves and doesn't agree to anything the US says or does.