Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

The government is locked in an unpopular dispute with junior doctors, the economy is slowing and the cabinet is divided over EU membership. In such circumstances, one would expect the Conservatives’ opinion-poll lead to have narrowed, if not collapsed. Instead, the gap has widened.

After losing the general election by 6.5 points, Labour is now trailing the Tories by an average of 10 and by as much as 14, according to one survey. At no point in the post-1945 era has it performed so poorly in opposition. The Conservatives now regularly achieve the 40 per cent share that many regarded as impossible without a transformation of their brand. The transformation of Labour has proved enough.

Which old etonian will the con party pick as theie leader?

The new old etonian leader of the Con party.

He needs a in his mouth!

Post 67899 H how on earth can you say he has done a good job, he went in asking for next to nothing and will come out with absolutely nothing, nothing that is concrete, that can't be changed by either fellow euro members or the MEP's.
2517

The new leader:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/17/eu-referendum-david-cameron-boris-johnson-talks-downing-street

The new leader:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/17/eu-referendum-david-cameron-boris-johnson-talks-downing-street

Done is the wrong word since he is still negotiating. Maybe making some progress in the areas that appear to interest him but in terms of retrieving a measure of sovereignty who knows. Time will tell. I would prefer more talks to achieve a complete package rather than going into a referendum on a half baked deal.
The EU idea has many positives but it has got seriously out of hand. From what I have heard so far I would vote out but not because some Polish woman may be sending her child benefit back home. That is trivia compared to the fundamental change required.

I think Cameron has done a good job. It would be unrealistic to imagine that he could have got any more concessions from the EU as there are too many countries to agree.

The problem for Cameron is that no matter what was the deal, the Eurosceptics would want to leave the EU. UKIP in particular, have made immigration a huge thing. In reality, we take the least immigrants in Europe and the least asylum seekers. Even Sweden has taken more than us and that is even before the recent Syrian crisis. UKIP has managed to appeal to the lowest common denominator in the UK by being rabble rousers.

It is very unlikely that there is going to be a sensible debate. Certainly, UKIP have never talked sensibly about the EU. The next few months just see a series of emotional outbursts from the leave campaigners and pushing fear from the stay campaign.

If people don't like what Cameron has got then what extra things should he have asked for?

It's not so much a case of what Cameron asks for or not now, it's the realistic chance of him getting an agreement as far as the out people are concerned.

the entrenched are not going to change their minds ..... it's the 20% or so that are undecided who will swing the decision


eu migrants
there's no way that a block can be put on free movement, for pretty obvious reasons
however, if you limit their benefits of various kinds, then it will certainly deter some - eg it will make the uk system less enticing

it should also be borne in mind that the uk economy is thriving, especially in comparison to the rest of europe ....... i also suspect that those at the lower end of the wage scale get paid more than their counterparts in many other places in europe

United Kingdom Industrial Production 1969-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar
Industrial Production in the United Kingdom decreased 0.40 percent year-on-year in December of 2015, following a downwardly revised 0.7 percent increase in the previous month. It is the first contraction in 28 months, mainly due to a 1.7 percent decrease in manufacturing output. For full 2015, industrial output went up 1 percent while factory activity edged down 0.2 percent. Industrial Production in the United Kingdom averaged 0.81 percent from 1969 until 2015, reaching an all time high of 22.60 percent in February of 1973 and a record low of -11.90 percent in December of 1980. Industrial Production in the United Kingdom is reported by the Office for National Statistcs.

Alf,

The "benefit cheats" line is way over done and is only a small proportion.

As we know people who employ others here on the whole want the free movement of labour to stay "mainly" because the people coming in are cheaper wages and conditions wise to employ. So generally want to remain.

Also less training your workforce in most cases as they come already trained.. but don't buy the lies about them being highly motivated being the "main" reason for employing EU immigrants.

Whilst generally of course they are highly motivated, unfortunately we now live in an increasingly "low wage poorer conditions" UK, whilst they come from an even lower base Country wages and conditions wise.. so of course they are motivated.

Further more if we are out employers would still have to except the free movement rules or look for new markets outside the EU which employers would be loath to do.

Most sensible post that I can remember from you Stanley. Gold star.

Where did you get this from Stan?



"Further more if we are out employers would still have to except the free movement rules or look for new markets outside the EU which employers would be loath to do."

Can't remember where I've heard Max but think it to be the case, maybe do some of your own research to confirm and if I'm wrong I will apologise and restate.

stan - i didn't say "benefit cheats"; i observed that our current benefits system is very generous ...... i also commented on the low wage-earner eu migrants

perhaps you didn't read rather as i don't read fred's stuff :-)

If the UK is chucked out of the EU, many of the treaties and "contracts" will have to be rewritten, as will the employment "rules" and immigration and emigration arrangements.

EU property and tax rules will have to be rewritten

It will be a chaos, but the solicitors and "bankers" will make a bomb.

I wonder what the Pound/Euro rate will be?
-==-==

Cameron's idea to calm his split party was barmy from the begging.

Dreamt up on the back of a fag packet, by an arrogant barrow boy trying to be slick !


I can see why Scotland may opt for another devolution referendum for devolution.

Certainly, Norway which is not in the EU but has a trade agreement with it, has to accept free movement of people. It is a requirement of a similar deal. The hope of the leave group that we will get a better deal. Don't hold your breath.

No I didn't mean that you meant "benefit cheats" Alf, what was in my mind was that that is the line trotted out more often then not by the Right.

don't hear much from or even about comrade corbyn on eu, even from fred ...... that says a lot in itself