Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Oh dear Stan. Bad news. Flash news to my iphone - UK economy grew by 0.3% in three months to June adding to expectations that interest rates will stay at record low.
The remoaners would be so happy if we went into recession.

IT.

With the effects of devaluation of sterling, one would hope and expect an improvement in exports.

But the value of "the pound in your pocket" for the majority of the people in the UK has gone down, ie, they are poorer.

Also, from the past "devaluation" can be a short term stimulus but costs of "necessary" inputs mute the effects, as you know.

(Useful for a kick start when batteries are low.)

I doubt that many wish "Brexit" if it really occurs in any meaning full way to be an economic failure but my guess is that it will a cobbled together hotchpotch of agreements without the UK sitting at any economic and political management table in the EU.

The results will be an attempt to placate the "voters" and change in practice little.

But at a colossal expense and damaging to "international" relationships.

The UK will have to be grateful for scraps from the table without meeting the cooks.


Many or even the majority of the heroic Brexiters were voting "against" fictitious and relatively small problems with the EU and in favour of their racist tendencies when it comes to immigration.

When it comes to "rule and govern ourselves", as a small independent nation we will be kowtowing to all and sundry and still be obeying international law.

If rules, regulations and laws are wrong, argue for change, but respect when in a minority that the majority may be right or need to be persuaded.

It is no use storming off like recalcitrant teenagers like the UK present negotiators "threaten" to do.

-=--=-=

(Trump and his followers must be rubbing their hands with glee.

I think the thing which Trump and cronies want is international and economic chaos in the hope they can breed advantageously on the dung heap they are creating.

And Liam Fox and May want a closer relationship with this gang, hoping to bolster their own political positions.)

Blame the EU then, Fred....

To be made to have to accept unlimitless immigration isn't a right thing to enforce on a country.

Functioning in an undemocratic way, as the EU seems to do, isn't a right way of doing things either.

Neither are some of the silly laws about 'human rights' in the EU which seem to offer criminals more protection than they do the victims of crime.

Exec,

Life for the majority in the EU and UK compared with 50 years ago has advanced in social and medical and legal aspects. Also, personal well-being and actual wealth have been improved beyond expectancies.

A large amount of these "improvements" have been down to EU cooperation and "stability" for over 40years.

Of course, there have been mistakes, and disagreements, but tearing up the contracts increasing the disgruntlement with close nations or countries and rejoicing in the destruction of the EU as an entity does not seem to me to be an adult approach to problems.

If trading more easily with rest of the world is beneficial for the UK, it is probably similar for the 27 other EU countries.

Argue the case.

But also, look at the protection from being in EU.

-=-=-=-=-=

World Pirates are no longer appreciated.

-=-=-=

If you dont't like the EU name change it to a Cooperation of States.

Cooperation of States .... whose rules are dictated by germany in brussels
when those whose pensions emanate from brussels are not allowed to be publicly vocal against the system, then something is badly wrong

it is sad but true that no meaningful changes to existing policy have ever come about from inside eu
that is not to deny that much eu legislation is good

however, it was not until uk voted out and other member states got very vociferous against this freedom of movement "holy grail" that any change was even contemplated

the CAP and fisheries policies are also fundamentally flawed, but brussels has no interest in changing them .... no wonder fish stocks are becoming perilously low

many of rulings from ECJ and ECHR are also totally nuts - eg the block to deport instantly the likes of abu hamza

Well this is one rule by Germany that has been kicked into touch. Won't stop it trying to force other EU countries to take migrants that it encouraged however. Or Italy giving them european travel documents.

In a ruling which could have far-reaching consequences for how the European Union deals with migrants in future, the European Court of Justice on Wednesday upheld the right of member states to deport asylum-seekers to the first EU country they enter.
The ruling amounted to an effective rejection of Angela Merkel’s controversial “open-door” refugee policy, which saw more than one million asylum-seekers flood into Germany.
The court ruled that the EU’s Dublin regulations, under which refugees must seek asylum in the first member state they enter, still apply despite the unprecedented influx of 2015.

Leave now. I just dont understand. Too many with vested interests shovelling what they can out before natives get restless again.

Cynic,

Do you think rules and regulation regarding fishings and their implementations will be improved by the exit from the EU?

I think the public should be able to assess the financial "rewards" of public "officials" and "public" corporation.
-=-=-=-=

It,

I suggest recognising and understanding what group responsibility to fellow human beings means and would be pertinent in the migration problem.

Also, recognising and accepting the precursors of the said "problem".

I.E paying for the crimes.

If that had been done earlier many of the present problems may have been avoided.

Dear God in heaven, what are you drinking Fred? (smoking?)

First of all Max its very unlikely that there is a god.. let alone a heaven.

Secondly Fred's tiple is beside the point and as for Fred smoking?..don't be ridiculous -):

Deportation to first country of EU entry is an interesting concept in the Schengen Area.

Not if your Greek or Italian it isn't.

So when are the French going to start deporting those still hanging around the Channel ports ?

It's obviously not a UK problem.

The whole thing with unmanned borders, Dilbert, is that the deportees can walk straight from Greece or Italy through any other Schengen country and back up to Calais.

Good job they can't walk on water then isn't it.

I thought Austria had closed its border and someone else , Hungary? to these migrants ?

And surely the EU court ruling makes it ok to do so.

If I were Italy or Greece I'd threaten to give all migrants an EU passport within a week of landing and a free train ticket to whatever country they wanted to go to.

If I were Italy or Greece I would bomb the crap out of Libya until it put an end to the invasion. I might also drop a couple on the ships waiting to drop the migrants at my ports.

And both Greece and Italy are renowned for their military might, and have bottomless pits for a defence budget?

I would borrow the money, as usual. :)

Don't think your getting much attention today Fred ,go back to sleep maybe ?

Pointers to the Success of the Cameron government and tory internecine self-love affair.