Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Ruth, Gausie, I know.
My grandma used to say of such people, "Just what sort of B is he?"
When I asked her what she meant, she used to say, "people are either decent or one of the five Bs - blind, bigoted, bad, barmy or bast***s"
Richard

I seem to remember an innocent child in Portugal being sacrificed for a few plates of tapas as well.

Oh yes !
Those Israelis were to blame for that as well.

'Horray!!!'

Fred, that comment really does show your way of thinking to be strange, depraved even. Having said that, maybe a pre emptive strike on Iran is what is needed now they've joined the space race.

ps, why haven't you been condemning Sri Lanka in the same manner you condemn Israel for their 'local disturbance.' The Tamil seem to work in the same way as Hamas - force the civilians to stay in the line of fire.

Raw. Open up a thread on Sri Lanka and I will consider you contributions to the debate and solution of the problems there.

The "Horray" was being sarcastic. I am sorry that you couldn't understand that. I will try to be more explicit for you in future.

Isaacs, If the incident in Portugal, is what I think you are referring to, I hope that you never make a similar mistake and which leads to the same possible consequences.

Fred - please don't worry as I definitely will not sacrificing my small children to go and have a glass of wine and a few olives.

I hope you are right! But I did say similar mistake.

I don't want to get involved in the portugal fiasco as enough has been said on the matter but I personally wouldn't consider it to be a 'mistake'.

OK Fred I won't leave them unattended for any purpose.

As has been commented before amazing how you direct such vitriol at Israel for causing harm to innocent children but are so forgiving towards parents who desert their children and silent regarding Hamas which is guilty of all kinds of abuses towards children. Still no sign of balance from you I'm afraid.

Let me state from the beginningI am on the side of peaceI am on the side of safety for women and childrenI am on the side of freedom for the innocentI would just like to re-post the best example of the other viewand add nobody has the last say!

The Count - 13 Jan 2009 13:18 - 211 of 724


Israel itself was created via the use of terrorism, so I'd be careful on how you selectively use the term. Previous Israeli leaders like Ariel Sharon and Menachem Begin were terrorists themselves. Menachem begin was happy blowing up British soldiers in the process....not just dirty Ayrab villagers.

And thanks for Israel being so 'understanding' that she actually forced, what were actually just a bunch of Israeli SETTLERS out of the Gaza strip.

SETTLERS....you do know the meaning of the word don't you? What were they settling exactly? What the hell were they doing there in the first place? Were we really meant to sympathise with them?

Oh, and over the week they were being evicted, how the propaganda machine here in the west went into overdrive regaling us of endless tales of woe on every news broadcast of those poor Israelis being evicted from 'their homes' in order to let those 'dirty terrorist' mussies in instead...oh, how reasonable was Israel being? They were ILLEGAL SETTLERS for fuck's sake....by any stretch of international law.

Yeh Gausie, I bet you felt really glad they were evicted didn't you?

But let's talk about how wonderful and serious Israel has been about getting peace in Israel/Palestine shall we?

While the Palestinians were trying to negotiate peace settlement after peace settlement, the US administrations still couldn't stop Israeli settlements spreading on the West Bank let alone further land seizures within Israel proper. How unreasonable were those dirty Palestinian terrorists, eh?

Negotiating still, despite seeing daily, new settlements going up on the land under negotiation. What other political group on Earth could have accepted such conditions to negotiate under...yet out of pure desperation, they still tried to do so? Some terrorists, eh?

Since 1967, there have been 223 Jewish-only settlements and outposts built on confiscated Palestinian land. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Since Sep 2000 and excluding the present conflict, 1,050 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis against 123 Israeli children by Palestinians. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Since Sep 2000 and excluding the present conflict, 1,062 Israelis and at least 4,876 Palestinians have been killed. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Since Sep 2000 and excluding the present conflict, 8,341 Israelis and 33,034 Palestinians have been injured. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

During Fiscal Year 2007, the U.S. gave more than $6.8 million per day to Israel and $0.3 million per day to the Palestinians. Presummably, they at least gave a little morsel to the Palestinians in their capacity as 'honest broker' in this conflict (yeh right!). Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Between 1955 to 1992, there have been at least 65 UN resolutions targetting Israel and the Palestinians have been targeted by none. Israel is always happy to mention the one resolution of the UN that legitimised it, yet has ignored all others since. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

I have already said, in a previous post, that 1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

And again, I have already said in a previous post, since 1967, 0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 18,147 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Perhaps it's time to start conceeding that they might just have a grievance, rather than just simply labelling them terrorists and being a further mouthpiece for the Israeli government, and stop the killing of a relatively defenceless population which, in itself, will just create yet another generation of 'martyrs' who will rise up and strike against Israeli targets and more worryingly for me, targets here in the west.

Israel is powerful today...and excessively so...but what a way to go on living...in the hope that Israel will always continue to be disproportionately powerful. Always is one hell of a long time.

They could instead start to stop labelling a whole peoples as terrorists like you have done, and start to allow them some basic dignity and human rights rather than shove them in the narrow strip of land that is Gaza, creating the most densely populated region on Earth, and then further blockading that so that they can't even live a pitiful existence in what is effectively a prison camp, and then cry wolf and bomb the shit out of them when they try to fight back by launching their own rockets, and further try to justify this by saying that they operate using their own people as shields.

If Hamas were such terrorists, why don't you tell us all just how many rockets they launched against Israel during the year long truce...a truce in which Israel still continued to blockade Gaza in a stranglehold it did well to survive in.

They are people too....deserving of some basic human rights, and a massive wrong has been done to them for over 60 years now. They too make great mistakes, but it should still not excuse what is happening to them at the moment.

I think we both know that the truth is that the present Israeli government is worried about elections coming up and chose a 'perfect' period in which to carry this out whilst the USA is in a transition between presidents.

I still like you though, but you make it extremely difficult sometimes. :-)

Oh, and as for that other little video just posted, I am still contemplating whether I should take quite a few more hours out to rip it to shreds, frame by frame, but I am once again under threat from the tax commissioners for a 125 daily fine for not doing my tax returns so I think I'll have to stay clear for now!!!!

Regards,

THE COUNT! .
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I dont like posting on this site as there are to many fanatics with the other viewand seeing as the World favours strength above goodthere most probably will never be an end..

what is with some of you guys that you to post War and Peace (well, perhaps not much of the latter) ..... are you incapable of being succinct, or were you not taught precis and similar at school?

Tabby - you're out of your depth on this thread - there's no point reposting long posts from earlier back that have already been discussed and corrected in part - and JC would scream with horror if he thought it was left to you to defend.

If you want to post, please try to post something original.

Isaacs, I would suggest you re-read what I have posted previously.

I have condemned some Israeli actions and done likewise against some of the Hamas and other Palestinian groups actions.

I feel that you are objecting to any criticism, which is made of Israel. However, I think, my position is similar to the majority of International Humanitarian bodies, which are probably better informed that either you, or myself.

Also, I think these bodies attempt to be impartial in presenting their opinions.

I used to use the analogy that when and action is observed by two people, there are three truths. Two truths as each observer see it and one as it really was.

I think I will modify this analogy in future, and suggest there is always a third person, who will interpret any action as they wish, possibly for their own supposed advantage.

I also question, what is gained from escalating the situation to drag Iran further into the problem.

Is it the hope that America will come to the aid of Israel?

I think that the new American administration is unlikely to support any unilateral action by Israel, against Iran.

In the current world wide chaotic economic situation, it would be a crazy action.

A little more respect of the sanctity of other countries, societies and ethnic group would be appropriate.

The present international economic and political state, reminds of what I know of the period leading up to WW2.

That is for me, why a peaceful resolution for the Middle East is required.


Cynic, I try to be brief.

But if I am briefer it may be just a gesture.

Isaacs, Fred seems to have trouble seperating mistakes from pre meditated actions,
In my opinion Fred wouldnt know his head from his arse,thank god Fred isnt in charge of national security in the uk,

Got a very interesting and thought provocing email yesterday,
Personally i dont have a religeous bone in my body, ide quiet happily do away with all religeon tommorrow ,but i also do understand for some it means alot and everyone to their own, as long as they dont try and ram it down my throat and its
peacefull and non violent forms of worshipping who they believe in.

The mail sent to me isnt related to the problems in gaza , but with abit of thought and slight diversion could easily be compared against how and why problems exist in the world,

Allah or the Jesus Christ?

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion in the Australia .
Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Anglican and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy War] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers! '

I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of 'a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope Benedict commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or the Archbishop of Canterbury ordering all Anglicans to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'

The Imam was speechless!

I continued, 'I also have problem with being your 'friend' when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with this way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.
In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in Australia . To elect a government of their choice, complete with Shari law.
I think everyone in Australia should be required to read this, but with the Liberal justice system, liberal media and the political correctness madness, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

The cartoon boy.you are out of your depth in an inch of bathwaterI dont think that post was discussedbest you could come up with is:- Gausie - 13 Jan 2009 13:31 - 212 of 733
Ta COUNT!!

Lovely rhetoric.
---------------------------------
To which it was countered with I just love the way you never tackle anything head on and just continually spout loads of generality.
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Hes right there you do spout!... I dont profess to be able to pen the quality of The Counts postbut neither can you Truth is you dont give a fu*k about anyone or anything.you continue to take money off your mummy to make up for bad investments

Kayak, Had a look at the website suggested.

I hope that those who access the page will read the whole article.

When I was very young, I found it very strange that the Christian god was omnipotent, the Moslem god was omnipotent, the Jewish god is omnipotent and the Hindus also seem to have their omnipotent god.

I came to the conclusion that, all these different omnipotent gods must be the same GOD, as they were bound to be equal and only one god could be omnipotent.

This didnt seem to wash very well with some people I knew.

A little later, I considered a little about the messages, which these different groups were getting from their own particular god.

The basic messages seem similar, but the interpretations by the messengers seem to be different for each group. Each, thinking themselves special and usually valuing themselves, their own religion and own culture, more than the same entities of other groups.
Also, when they interpreted the other gods messages, the interpretations seemed more extreme and hostile. (Perhaps, engendering hatred, which they could direct usefully for themselves.)

Being young I thought this strange, until I realised that the messengers seemed to benefit from their own particular interpretations of the Words of Gods.

With a little bit of fear and rewards put into the teachings, they could gain followers and supporters and by maintaining their privileged position, of interpreting their Gods words, maintain their own advantageous positions.

When I think of the Middle East , I remember my confusion at the time.

It is not the ethnicity, which seems to me to be the problem, but those who try to maintain power by abusing it.

Where's Fred gone, that last post can't be him, it made sense :)

Raw, You are beginning to worry me.

Fred, your hillarious you, how can you urge people to read the whole article,
the whole truth doesnt matter to you does it? i got the impression you were only interested in debating the issues that went along with your own thoughts?and anything else was simply shoved aside with one of your infamous quotes of "you wouldnt understand"

And who are you trying to kid, you remember when you were young, ffs youve not got a hope in hell of remebering that far back,
What do you think about people like me who dont believe in any god,have my parents done me a dis service by not encouraging me to believe in something that no one can prove exists,or has ever existed ?have you got any factual proof Fred, that any god exists, or are you just going off what youve been taught to believe,

Tobasco, thats a bit of a wild accusation, but even if it was accurate,how does that make him uncaring,?what would be wrong with a mother helping her children out,?isnt that what loving mothers do, help as best they can?love cherish and look out for their sons/daughters best interest,?
Or would you prefer she was like an Hamas mother and teach him how to make a suicide bombers vest and how to hate and kill and blow up innocent people in the perverse brainwashing mentallity that it would lead him to a better place ?

I dont know if your a male or a female, but maybe you and Fred should become email buddies, seems like you have a lot in common,