Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I think Brexit will happen, but I also think it's going to end up being very diluted, bordering on a total fcuk up, it's going to rumble on way past 2019, and a whole lot of people (mainly on this thread) will become very disillusioned with it.

Seriously, I think that as soon as Maggie May triggered Article 20, the UK should have just walked away completely at that point, and not ponced about. That would have meant cutting a short term loss, and a further weakening of sterling, but it would also have been a positive signal of intent, and sterling would have recovered far quicker than it will from its current 'death by a thousand cuts'. If the UK's future is going to be through trade deals with the US, Australia, India, China, etc, then they need to be forging ahead, and sorting out deals with those countries today - not faffing about trying to sort out the divorce terms first, as they could easily wait.

Let's face it, the best businesses fire on the spot - staff are told to clear their desks, and security escort them from the building - they don't leave key personnel working their notices, stealing clients, spreading discontent, and generally damaging the business. Similarly, if a married couple are going to split, they split there and then and move on with their lives - the lawyers can deal with the divorce settlement later - how many couples spend two years under the same roof talking about who's gonna get the silver canteen of cutlery before they split?

The difference after the separation will be the UK serving at the table rather than being sat at it.

Hoping that they might be offered some scraps from the table after the meals are over.

The mongrels of Europe?

I recognise you are always right Hilary, well most of the time, but Article 20 deals with the rights of EU citizens. But I agree with the sentiment of your post. Note to self -sell the silver cutlery.

Well spotted, iturama. In my defence, your 'onour, I'd like to point out that the #2 key on the numeric pad sits just below the #5 key.

After a bit too much EU subsidised local red wine last night, it's a miracle I even found my laptop this morning, let alone the keyboard. :o)

I've been saying that for months hils , give me the job of lead negotiator and I'd have us out in a month with the same deal we will get in the end anyway plus save a fortune.

Fred , that cartoon just about sums up Loony Labours new Brexit policy. Didn't have the balls to put it before the electorate.

I know it is a little difficult for Dil but it is just common sense.

I wonder how many "golden oldies" living in France, Spain, and Portugal on British pensions will be "immigrating" back to England?

Should help the social services!

Dil,

Here is an interesting summation of Brexitier's success.
"
Brexit the Musical": in Edinburgh, I understood how farce can be more persuasive than argument

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/27/brexit-the-musical-satire-can-save-us

--=-=-=-=

Even death sentences have been repealed.

A dark horse, or a stalking horse?



Brexit campaigners 'use ECJ backlash to rally support for Rees-Mogg'

Social media analysis finds issues such as European court are behind wave of online support for MP as potential Tory leader

Dan Roberts Brexit policy editor


@RobertsDan

Monday 28 August 2017 05.45 BST





Brexit campaigners have seized on signs of a possible climbdown over Europe and are using it to rally support around alternative Tory leaders, according to a study.

Analysis of social media activity, a key political battleground during the referendum, reveals a particular backlash at the European court of justice (ECJ) after ministers hinted it could play a continued role in British affairs after March 2019.

Researchers at Signify, a data science company, used public data to examine 50,646 individuals sharing articles about the ECJ on platforms such as Facebook and found four times as many people were pro-Brexit than pro-remain, while 83% expressed negative sentiment about the court.


Promotion of hot button issues such as the ECJ now appears to be behind a wave of online support for Tory politicians who are opposed to any softening of the government strategy, and may stir a similar resurgence in support for Ukip as Labour also softens its Brexit message.


“The issue is a proxy for sovereignty and control, and has become a tool for galvanising Tory Brexiteers and Ukip supporters, coalescing their support around Jacob Rees-Mogg,” said Joe Harrod, chief operating officer of Signify.

“It’s hard for remainers to get traction on this topic because all their arguments are about process and statutes, while many leave voters genuinely regard sovereignty and the rule of Brussels as a red line issue. It’s a perfect topic to energise that base.”



More: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/28/brexiters-ecj-backlash-rally-support-jacob-rees-mogg

Rees Moggy? They might as well drag back Miss or was it Missed Ann Widdecombe back 😂

Rees Moggy v Jeremy Liar?

Your hero is betraying you every time he opens his mouth Stan, he's backtracking on everything. Mind you, so in the mini maggon, but she's about to go anyway.

Bring back the Widdy... and bring her back now 😆

The tory party is digging in the graveyard for another leader.

R Mogg looks more like a Ghoul every day.

I would think a suitable leader for the Breakers, Brexiters, con party, and fellow travellers.

7379 - i don't believe that for a minute

Cyners,

The Sky News article didn't really explain why there'd be a drop in air travel, but I read something a good few months ago which basically said that the airlines plan their routes and reserve the airport landing slots at least 6 months in advance.

So, if the UK leaves the EU in March 2019, a trade deal would need to be agreed by September 2018 in order to give the airlines sufficient confidence to book their routes for the summer of 2019. I guess that a drop in air travel between the UK and EU countries is, therefore, quite probable, but only if a trade deal isn't agreed in time.

Fred - 7408

I only know of one expat who has headed back to the UK since the referendum, but that's because she's on her own and she's just become a grandmother.

Every other expat I know is far happier living outside the UK, and has no desire or intention whatsoever to return.

Hilary,

The expats I know in Europe also want to remain where they are. They can afford to do so.

However, due to the devaluation of sterling the "pensions" of many others when the sources are from the UK have decreased in purchasing value.

That is the stimulus for some of them to wish to return.

Mind when the temperature in Provence was 40C earlier this month I can understand other reasons.

Be careful when you stand in the sea to cool off, there are always stray sharks about.

PS.

I am lucky my pension is index linked.

I dont buy one way or another why once you have made your mind up to leave why come back. Is just an extended holiday?

Fred,

No sharks around this neck of the bois - just the occasional octopus and jellyfish. It's actually easier, however, to pop into the Auchan for fresh seafood.

Most markets tend to move in 10 year cycles. Current sterling weakness isn't unique, as similar levels against the euro were last seen in 2009. Similarly, the highs of 2015 were replicated around 10 years previously. Longstanding expats have seen it all, and tend to accept it for what it is.

The problem they would have in returning to the UK, however, is that their overseas property is unlikely to have appreciated to the same extent as the UK property they left behind will have appreciated. So, if they can't afford to live abroad, I'd suggest it's highly unlikely that they'd now be able to afford to live back in the UK.

PS. 40 degrees. Yes, it has been warm this summer. You get used to it.