The 2005 general election is nearly upon us. Which way will you vote, and you reasons why. Here is a brief list of the potential contestants, please add your own.


More tax!
Less tax!
Dont know!
Death to all infidels!
Who gives a shit?

The great pretender.

Great stuff! Keep it up chaps-pity more female input isn't forthcoming but like your comments Eric. Where are you girls???

kshammas.
Could have saved yourself a lot of time.....you should have just said 'vote for duplicitous Tony'.

All great G'mnts have been led by great leaders. Some have been perceived to be a great leader and been proven wrong. The trick is, knowing who would achieve greatness. That of course is an impossibility. Only history is the judge of greatness. Tony of course will fail the test.
But the problem as seen by many who would vote Conservative,is, Michael Howard.
Sadly, I don't think Michael will achieve greatness. A good technocrat is about all one can say. He doesn't inspire though. Tony did. And blew it.
So who instead of Michael? Hague? Fantastic orator who was force reared far,far too soon. Nobody likes a lippy youngster. His time might come again when memory has faded a bit.
No. My choice would be David Davies. A hard working self made man from the lowest rungs of the social scale. He knows what life is all about.
Not mouthy.Quiet and with well constructed arguments. A hint of hardness there that is shown when he has the chance at the Despatch Box. He doesn't shout but lets the other man hang himself.
Look him up. You'll find him with Google. Great? Only time will tell.

what a great thread!

very entertaining and certainly strong views expressed on both sides.

The problem with Blair is that he is a Liar. I simply do not trust the man. I am a conservative at heart and acknowledge that their leadership right now is up the swanny but the labour leadership is a lapdog to the US and is a master of (barely) stealth taxation.

The reality is that these days, as with the US, most parties are just left or right of centre. i just want a leader that i, as a citizen, can trust and have faith in. I do not with the current leadership.

when it comes to the iraq war i agree saddam should have been deposed but look at the way that plan was executed....all based on lies. at least go through the official channels for more time and then declare war. idiots.
we all know its about oil and we all know its about control in the middle east so bloody well acknowledge that fact. I don't see 100billion being spent trying to avoid the next genocide in Africa! they are all such hypocrites.

Anyway, i have seen the other side...Singapore. It is a nanny/police state following a supply side economic policy. heres the other part - 22% income tax, no CGT/IHT and VAT of 4%. Massive govenment surplus and 30 degrees all year round. lived there for 5 years so i can see how good it can be. if i have any wise cracks about "go back and live there then" all i will say is Blighty is home and always will be because that is where my family is.

So, a few views from me - for the record i would like no CGT, abolish the ridiculous IHT and make up the money by raising cigarettes to 20 per pack. Oh, and as for the PM...my vote goes to Mickey Skint's Mother in Law! Legend.

pop.
some good points..........don't know about mickys m-in-law. Is she tall and curvacious? Photo micky?

Taxation. It has been proven over and over again: Reduce taxation and more tax is gathered.
Over-tax the high earners and we will have a repeat of what happened the last time Labour tried it......brain drain.
IHT. A bearly acceptable tax that has been taken to it's limits.
CGT. Ditto. Why do they screw the people with ingenuity SO much?
State Pension.The New Zealand way is very attractive. After ten or more years in NZ, everybody gets the same pension. Worked or not. (The mothers who have reared the children 'haven't worked', but rightly get the same.)
The massive gain? 95% of the people who used to run the greatly overstaffed
pension dept are found USEFUL work.

Must go. Just had a call to do some bloody work! Sod.

Standber, you seem to have gone from a Capitalist to a Communist...........

"State Pension.The New Zealand way is very attractive. After ten or more years in NZ, everybody gets the same pension. Worked or not."ENDS

If thats the way of your thinking one as to question why you dont see workers and non workers all getting the same income. A very strange remark from a torry.

Anyway back to pensions here, you can bet your bottom dollar good old Gordon as given the pensioners a tenner extra in the budget today to secure their votes come election day. NICE.

Vote Labour, YOU CANT TRUST THE TORYS AND DRACULA.

GF.

EWRobson,

in message 53 you said that kshammas message 52 was nonsense.

In fact, it was a quite balanced view compared to some of the posts on this thread which are totally 1 sided & refuse to see the faults in the party that they support.


mickeyskint in message 42

You said

"What a sad state of affairs it's all come to. Not one politician or party we can trust..."

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THAT!

We need a written constitution that specifies constant monitoring of the politicians. This is the only way to keep them in line.

We have a right to know what they are doing.

Any voter without a criminal record should be able to find out anything so that politicians can be forced to abide by very tight constitutional anticorruption laws.

It should be illegal for a politician to benefit from anything unless specifically permitted to do so by legislation.

Politicians love secrets.
Secrets should not be permitted, the only thing that should be allowed is a delay of public release of information because it would compromise a current operation but they should have to prove that in a closed court if a voter requests the information.
As soon as the operation is over, further delay should be illegal as specified by a written constitution.

i am also an advocate of paying politicians significantly more than they earn now. that way the best and brightest would be attracted. pay an MP 250/- a year and some industry stars may be attracted. contravertial but i have seen this work around the world. stops corruption and brings in the brains. that wage bill in nothing versus treasury income.

just an idea and then we wouldn't have to put up with the current bunch of "leaders"

What a fantastic Budget from Gordon Brown, like I predicted the 'Grey Vote' now secured and just look at the investment in enterprise Sir Alan Sugar was overwhelmed.

It certainly was a budget for the family and in paticular middle Britain.

Gordon was at his very best what a great chancellor he is, I filled up when he gave details on the spending on the Queen Mothers Memorial a shrewd investment this for the Foreign Travel Industry.

Yes he was brilliant and Im still shivering at all the effort and passion he put into his speech very much unlike the ravings of his opposite number today dracula who I would have mistaken for a football yob were it not for the suit he was wearing. And there behind him was good old Oliver Leftwing ....... tit, anyone recognise that handle from advfn?. As usual looking like the little mole he is. Strange how all the torys look the same, they all appear to have their eyes half closed, I suppose its inbreeding that as done that.

Anyway my conclusion, Labour will now go on and walk the next election, still a big majority will be maintained.

REMEMBER you cant trust DRACULA AND THE TORYS.

GF.

You could be wrong GF--people know when they're being bribed and a lot of the promised goodies don't materialise. Promises promises and poof they disappear!
Yes Gordon does seem to be the most sincere one among them but all these handouts have to be paid for either by borrowing which he has done massively or taxing hard working middle England. ie US! My father always said he was labour in his heart but knew we couldn't pay for their policies-so Tory in his brain! You will never ever reach the point that all people are on the same income it is a fact that the top leaders in industry etc create the wealth for this country to support the not so able. Tax these people to the hilt and they find ways of avoiding it, move their money off shore, relocate the business abroad or simply leave the country altogether. We are getting near the point when people and businesses are suffering like Dyson cleaners now made abroad, and call centres moving to India etc. crunch time is approaching and 3 months of every tax payers earnings are already earmarked for the government coffers so June is your tax earning freedom date--that's without all the indirect taxes we pay! Tory or Labour I think that's enough of my income supporting the tax credits and whatever 40% and spend it wisely. There's not much evidence to convince me it is being spent wisely!! How much income extra to this would you be prepared to have taken from you before you too would want to leave the country-it's 40% and no more for me!!
This is a great thread because no one ever calls to my front door for me to air my views, I live in on Dartmoor. Stay there and shut up do I hear you say?
cheers MP

GF

Sounds like you want to have Gordon's babies.
Take those blinkers off.

It's not all rosy but on balance the economy looks as if it will remain stable.

Brown has got a good track record & every year, the Tories & the international economic organisations say that his budget is bad or even disasterous.

Every year they are proved wrong, & the economy keeps on steadily growing.
Almost the whole world went into recession last time but we didn't.

I don't want the Tories to screw it all up AGAIN but I will have to put up with an ARSEHOLE called Blair for the sake of a stable economy.

Blair is a right wing ARSEHOLE but Howard is an even bigger ARSEHOLE & even more right wing.


Give me a hung parliament because that gives them less power.


Your comment about trust is rather superfluous.

Like I said before.

Trust & Politician!

Those 2 words just don't belong together.

Apple a hung parliaments no good nothing gets passed and they will have to return to the country. Anyway Blair will stand down and Brown will have taken over by 2007.

Im going for a 90 seat labour majority.

GF.

GF.
You do not know what you want! Other than Gordon for PM.

Oh, and try to refrain from swearing. It makes for better reading.

And it is Tory singular with Tories plural.

The Budget? Like the Curates egg.

Sadly I think you may be right there. They all seem to develop massive egos, feather their nests, drive around in fleets of limousines, stay in 5 star luxury and thumb their noses at the struggling worker bees! There are just a few that still seem sincere in both main parties--Clare Short( though she had to toe the party line and struggled with it) Mo Mowlem (daft as a brush) Gordon ( who is so down to earth he makes himself look silly and pretentious by turning up to every grand occasion in a suit instead of the normal dress- this silliness will prevent him being PM I think unless he stops making a political point)
Oliver(too gentle and nice for his own good) David Davis( sincere but a quiet bruiser and one to watch) and William Hague ( thoroughly decent but put forward far too soon and admits he wasn't normal to be in politics so young) He's definitely a future leader again but is doing far too well out of the bunfight!

Then there's ME of course and finally Mickey's M in Law!! spoilt for choice.

Socialists are all the same. "What is yours is mine".

USSR
East Germany
Poland
Italy (If they are in longer than six months)
China (Still. But I think the skin is falling from their eyes)
Best of the bunch? CUBA. But even Fidel can't make it work .

I'm surprised GF isn't banging the drum for PR. Silly Billy. (Wasn't that old 'spray it again'? You know, one of your lot.)

hi standber////Daivd Davies has indeed con his way up the pole////but he has suported alot of ideals // that could infact if acted upon STOP OTHERS FROM HAVING THE SAME CHANCE/////oh by the way////I WOULD NEVER TRUST/////////THETORRIES////////////////NEVER/////

moneyplus,

Come back to reality.

Here are another 2 words just don't belong together.

Sincere & Politician!



standber,

Socialism is just a word that they throw arround.

It does not & can not exist because it is illogical.

Castro is not a Socialist nor any of those who called themselves Socialist that ever got their hands on power.

Anyone in power soon realises that they can't be a Socialist because it is illogical & they soon resort to guns & secret police to stay in power.


Socialism is economic system where the means of production, distribution and exchange is controlled by the state.

As the abandoned Clause 4 of the Labour Party said:

'To secure for the producers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry, and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible, upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production distribution and exchange and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry and service.'

This is unworkable & therefore illogical.

& of course is yet another opportunity for corruption.

Great posts and strong views well done all of you. My post re the ladies was tonge in cheek and was intended to provoke them in to the discussion. Looks like I failed. It's really good to read different views, all put together so well, I've throughly enjoyed the last 10 minutes. My wedding anniversary today so I'm cooking the steaks. Splashed out on a bottle of champers as well, the real stuff, so I'll be pissed later on. I'll have one for you moneyplus, good luck.

Rab C Nesbitt for PM

MS

CORRUPTION HAPPENS//// ALSO UNDER A CAPITALIST///SYSTEM////IN GOOD ALL USA///IN GOOD OLD CAPITALISTIC EUC// DARE I SAY IN DEAR OLD UK./////

APPLE for PM!!--you've summed it all up so well. Unfortunately we have to have someone in charge so who do you back? Otherwise Anarchy and I'm definitely off!

micky
Don't be frit! Lets have a foto of your ma-in-law. I hear say she is a looker?

Congrats on your wedding anniversary. Comisserations to the lady. ~:-))

apple.
Socialists is what they are known as. Invariably Communists.
I.E USSR. Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics.
British Socialists have Commies among them. (Dennis Skinner--The Beast of Bolsover for one). A rose by any other name eh?

britollad. Get a new keyboard. It's playing up. Does the forward oblique stroke get stuck? Bin the board.