Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Haze,

What your mates have achieved this year.

Day After Day..........Alone on a hill....

I agree with Fred ,feck em if they got a job and stop all their benefits cos after all they're probably all Labour voters.

That is what you were implying wasn't it Fred ?

And what the hell has that got to do with leaving the EU ?

Brexit IS going to be a success.

Loads of well experienced trade negotiators are being hired:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/897902/brexit-latest-uk-global-trade-links-negotiators-hired-eu

Exec.

Who is paying the bill for Brexit at the end of the day?

Haystack nailed it!

Max.

One to put above your bed.

Last full year of EU membership coming up , happy days eh Fred.

Have a happy new year all.

Worth putting on here because it can't be read without a subscription;

From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/12/31/nigel-farage-establishment-targeted-leave-campaign-donors-attempting/

Establishment targeted Leave campaign donors after attempting to put UKIP out of business
NIGEL FARAGE
Nigel Farage 31 DECEMBER 2017 • 10:17PM
672 Comments (as I type)

Nigel Farage says there has been a concerted attempt by the Establishment to put UKIP out of business

The Telegraph’s recent exposure of the Establishment targeting Leave campaign donors by hitting them with a 20 per cent inheritance tax bill on their gift raises fundamental questions about the functioning of our democracy.

If, as seems to be the case, pro-EU corporates donated without penalty but anti-EU entrepreneurs like Arron Banks and Stuart Wheeler have been punished merely for supporting the Leave side, it is little wonder that many Remoaners now want a second referendum.

This disgraceful stitch-up calls to mind another story about which I have so far kept quiet but which presents an even greater danger to our democracy.

For more than a decade there has been a concerted attempt by the Establishment to put UKIP out of business.

As a new party, it was difficult enough to promote our message of wanting to return Britain to being a self-governing, independent nation while constantly being accused of racism and xenophobia. Without money, however, the job would have been impossible.

Until 2004, UKIP was written off as an eccentric dad’s army with too much time on its hands. Indeed, I always knew it was a UKIP meeting by the number of RAF Bomber Command ties being worn by attendees in the front row.

Nigel Farage And Arron Banks picture
Nigel Farage And Arron Banks CREDIT: STEVE FINN

We were sincere and active, but we did not pose a genuine threat to the status quo at that time. All of that changed when I recruited Robert Kilroy-Silk to be a candidate at the European elections in 2004.

Through his being a former Labour MP and well known television host, our vote soared and we beat the Liberal Democrats into fourth place. It was at this point that UKIP had its first real contact with the Electoral Commission, set up under Tony Blair to stop foreign and anonymous interference in British politics.

Our problem was that in 2004 £360,000 had been received from a Kent bookmaker called Alan Bown. He was neither foreign nor anonymous. In fact, he wore houndstooth jackets so often that anybody spotting him from 100 yards would have known he could only have been a bookie.

In 2003 Mr Bown’s name was on the electoral roll. It was also on it in 2005. The problem was that his name was not on the roll in 2004.

Whether this was an oversight on his part or a clerical error by Thanet District Council, we will never know. In 2006 proceedings began which ensured that UKIP was dragged through the courts all the way up to the Supreme Court, where we appeared in 2010.

Stuart Wheeler picture
Stuart Wheeler CREDIT: GEOFF PUGH

Fortunately, we won by a vote of 4-3, and so a potential fine of £360,000 did not have to be paid. Had the judgment gone against us, I have no doubt it would have been the end of UKIP.

At the same point in time the pro-EU Liberal Democrats received £1.7 million from a man born in Scotland named Michael Brown who resided in Spain.

Not only was a false front company set up to make this donation, but the Lib Dems’ Mr Brown ended up with a serious conviction for fraud.

So, the Liberal Democrats had taken dirty money from a crooked donor based overseas who was not registered to vote in the UK. Despite this, and the original intention of the law, the Electoral Commission decided that the Lib Dems had acted in good faith. No charges were brought.

The different approach to these cases shows that serious institutional bias was just the beginning. It is not only the donors to the Brexit campaign who have been hit with demands from HMRC. So, too, have all significant UKIP donors.

Even though UKIP won the European Elections of 2014 - and in so doing became the first non-Labour or Tory party to win a national election since 1906 - we are not classed as a proper political party because we do not have two MPs in the House of Commons.

Neither at any point have we been awarded a single peerage, though the Lib Dems have an astonishing and quite ludicrous 100 members in the Upper House.

It is glaringly obvious that the British political structure is designed to keep the existing mainstream parties in place without the prospect of any new contenders upsetting these cosy arrangements. It is dominated by a two-party system – and, we now see, an attitude from HMRC - that means real democratic challenges are virtually impossible.

It cannot be said too many times: without the rise of UKIP there would never have been an EU referendum. That fair, open, democratic exercise simply wouldn’t have taken place.

Yet I am genuinely afraid that the Establishment, in the form of the Tories and Labour, plus the Electoral Commission and HMRC, is determined to make sure that nothing like it ever happens again.

If we want to live in a proper democracy and not merely a two-party state, the rules concerning donations need to change immediately.

If, as some think possible, we are forced to have a second referendum I believe that the Establishment will have a massive advantage over the Leave side thanks to its aggressive approach to any individual who wishes to donate to the Leave campaign.

I am pleased that Boris Johnson and Michael Gove joined The Telegraph last week in expressing outrage at HMRC’s behaviour, but they must speak up more often and more loudly for an open democracy, too.

Of course, some might disagree with what Nigel Farage has to say.

UKIP did indeed win the European Elections of 2014 despite UKIP not having any MPs, or being classed because of it, as a 'proper political party'.

When it mattered he did raise about 4m votes and he also rocked the foundations of our national government with what he had to say about the EU.

And then we had a Referendum to decide whether to leave the EU or stay in it.

When the 'Leave' result came in, Nigel Farage was proved correct when the incumbent PM, David Cameron, couldn't take the heat in the kitchen and resigned.

What he has to say about the persecution of 'Leave Donors' by HMRC, in comparison with the non-persecution of the 'Remain Donors' just totally stinks!

Most importantly, we need to see to it, that we live in a proper and decent democracy. The rules on donations do absolutely need changing immediately.

Heigh Ho said Roly.

Here's a bit more political controversy for you:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/21/keith-vaz-investigation-suspended-for-medical-reasons

below (from today's FT), according to fred, is one of the excellent reasons why UK should stay in EU where we have never ever had any control over the uncontrolled budget or the unaccountable profligacy of the MEP's and their hangers-on.....

Brussels prepares for battle over EU budget contributions
Brussels is preparing to call for a big increase in EU budget contributions during the 2020s in an effort to sustain the union’s post-Brexit spending power and cope with extra policy goals.

Manuel,

I suppose some in the UK are always looking for something for nothing.

But, if Brexit occurs, I wonder who will be waiting at the table looking for scraps.

not the fat plutocrats in brussels that's for sure

it's not a case of wanting something for nothing but rather a case of being totally fed up with brussels becoming ever greedier with no accountability ..... at least uk won't be called upon to pour money into that particular gaping maw

Scraps from the EU come with a 30% tariff Fred , be able to get them much cheaper elsewhere after we leave.

Once again, Jacob Rees-Mogg tells it very clearly, very concisely and very simply....

Come on, Theresa! I know he's a 'Leadership Threat' to you, but get this man into your cabinet and into the Brexit Negotiating Team!

‘There’s your answer‘ Rees-Mogg presents BRILLIANT system to finish Brexit impasse
Kaplan Contributor
January 1, 2018

The prominent Brexiteer put the ball in Ireland and the EU’s court to be the ones to erect a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic if they pleased.

European Union bosses have been adamant that Britain will not be allowed to start trade talks until Brussels’ three key issues are met – the so-called divorce bill, EU citizens’ rights and the Irish border.

Simon Coveney, the Republic’s newly appointed Deputy Prime Minister, warned , despite seemingly settling two of the three issues, Theresa May still has one major hurdle to jump.

Speaking to reporters, Mr Coveney reminded phase two Brexit talks can not begin without credible unstinting of the implications for the Irish border.

Brexit news: Jacob Rees-Mogg says it is up to the EU to impose a hard border on Ireland

JR-M says, It is up to the European Union and the Republic of Ireland if they want to impose their own hard border.

Responding to the Irish politician’s comments, Mr Rees-Mogg told : “The solution was actually set out to the committee by the head of HMRC, on Wednesday, when he said that there was absolutely no need for hard border between the UK and the Republic of Ireland. HMRC could implement Government policy and there are declarations that people could make on customs, the same way they do with VAT, and he had no problem with implementing Government policy."

“Therefore, it is up to the European Union and the Republic of Ireland if they wanted to impose their own hard border, but the UK wasn’t going to, didn’t need to, and there is your solution.”

Mr Rees-Mogg added: “This is a very straightforward issue and particularly if the UK maintains zero tariffs on the rest of the EU, which I expect it will want to do, then there is very little in the way of customs declarations."

“Some things are already done on an all-Ireland basis, animal standards are done on an all-Ireland basis, so that is all covered.”

Mr Coveney says “there is still work to do and we want to be positive in terms of how we approach that, but we will also be insistent on there being no fudge” to resolve the border issue.

The Irish Deputy Prime Minister added they must “get something that is real and credible that allows us to reassure the Irish people over the concerns around the border issue and the protection of the Good Friday Agreement”.

The Irish border issue could also rock Theresa May’s Westminster Government, with the DUP threatening to pull out of the deal keeping the Conservatives in power.

Sammy Wilson, the DUP’s Brexit spokesman, said any attempt to “placate Dublin and the EU” could result in the withdrawal of DUP support at Westminster.

New Year Hopes.



Get the brooms out!