Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Fahel-I see Fred is a fan of yours!

Fred1new - 13 Apr 2010 17:01 - 1516 of 1520
Yuff,

You are wasting your time on fahel.

Save your time and ignore him and his comments.

fahel-you are not a gentleman from your recent racist posts.

Now tell me fahel-which arab country are you from? Syria?

A simple question and then debate can commence.

Yuff,

I am American, My father is from Jaffa Israel My Mom from Lod Israel ,my wife is British. for more information I traveled all over Arab country, also I once visited Gaza Ramala, Beit Lahem, Jerusalem and many other areas, after the peace treaty singed.

That post was not posted by me I just quoted someone else,you can go back and check it you will see who wrote it. so when I talk on something I know what I am talking about. And I am for sure a Gentleman not acting as a Gentleman.

Yuff,

Fred can post whatever he likes and I do accept whatever he writes on me. because he is a real gentleman. so don't worry and try to act as gentleman learn from Fred.

Boys, Boys,

It is the weekend, have a nice one.


We can fight again next week.

I dont think the situation is solvable ....we made a monster by creating Isreal out of the guilt of the Holocaust..it was a huge mistake but it cant be undone.Should we give the Congo to the Monnies or Scientologists....

Israel was created before the Holocaust, but I do believe it was a mistake. Legally it existed from 1948, but practically it was agreed to from 1917.

Deligitimisation and demonisation rolls on aided by some muslim hatred, the looney left and their so-called liberal camp followers.
How dare you or anyone deny the right of a nation and a people to exist in their own homeland? Such deniers disgust me with their arrogance.
And yes, Israel too has to accept a Palestinian state and the main political parties agree there can only be a two state solution. But only when the Palestinians agree to co-exist peacefully and prove it with a period of not attacking Israel. Trust needs to be built slowly and steadily.
If I were an Israeli I would be very anxious about helping to give birth to a state dedicated to the destruction of Israel.
Yes, of course there are very right wing Israelis as well as very left wing ones and every shade of political belief between the two extremes - just as in most countries.
One problem with the Israeli DEMOCRATIC (and yes it's the only genuine democracy in the Middle East - and hey, try naming a genuine Muslim democracy in the region - hard, huh?)
And while I'm at it, why do people object to a JEWISH state but don't object to the other 22 MUSLIM states in the area? Sounds like the ancient hatred of Jews to me.
But to get back to the "fair" system of proportional representation the Israelis have.
What does it mean? It means small extreme religious parties normally hold the balance of power so the big parties can't form a government without agreeing to their demands. And no, those extreme religious parties don't really want to compromise, just as the extreme Muslims don't either.
So by the way there is a lesson for us not to go down the road of a hung parliament because we will be paralysed if that happens. Just vote Tory or Labour, whichever you think is the lesser of two very unsatisfactory options.
But for these so-called left-liberals in Britain who don't think Israel has a right to exist, tough sh**. Israel is here to stay so stuff your arrogance and gall where it belongs. Whine all you like, feel self-righteous with your pretend indignation, ignore the daily atrocities carried out by the governments of so many Muslim countries. Sit in your comfy armchairs thousands of miles from any existential threat, not needing local bomb shelters, not needing gas masks, not being rocketed and pontificate about whether Israel should exist. Not having the world telling you that you should allow a hostile state to come into being when your country - at its narrowest would only be ten miles wide between that hostile state and the sea.
Yes you sit there with your deeply held anti-Jewish hatreds born of two thousand years of being told by your religion that the Jews "killed God". You don't even realise how deep it is in your psyche and how you sink into the comfort of your easy stereotypes. Yes, it's very easy to hate Muslims, easy to hate Jews, Catholics, any other religion than your own. Or to hate nations, Germany, Japan whoever. The bad people exist in all countries irrespective of "race" or religion. But no, keep it simple, hate countries, racial groups, religions. Maybe you haven't got the brains or sense to understand any different. Think about it. It's people like YOU WHO START AND/OR SUPPORT WARS. Yes, it's YOUR fault there is so much needless suffering and death - and yet the irony is you cannot see that in yourselves.
You know what I would like most of all in this world? For the likes of Richard Dawkins to help people realise that religion is the source of more hatred and war than anything else.
Yes, the extremists of any religion or nationalism are more to blame than anyone else; but they are brainless and blind - that's WHY they are extremists.
But the non-extremists who deny a nation and a people the right to their own country, just like some posters on this thread, they disgust me. And that applies to the Ahmedinejads, the mullahs, the Liebermanns and all the rest of the intolerant. But you know something, the Israelis don't threaten to wipe Iran off the face of the earth, throw them into the sea, wipe out all Muslims. And you know what the overwhelming majority of Israelis want? A two state solution and to live in peace and bring up their children in peace. And many Palestinians also want that.
Most ordinary people on both sides realise that when a land is argued over by two peoples both of whom want to retain their own religious and cultural identities, is needs to be split between them, as in Ireland, Cyprus and so many countries. And that's what the UN did in 1947. The judgement of Solomon. The Arabs didn't accept that and invaded to slaughter the Jews. The rest is history.
Many Arab governments understand that and have made peace with Israel and many others have closer ties than they want publicised.
Still a long way to go, but those that say Isreal shouldn't exist and they have no right to defend their country - they are the lowest of the low.

One last point, I understand the feelings Muslims like fahel have about their brother Muslims. They are sympathetic to people with common values and religious attitudes who they think are being treated badly, but I admit I was deeply saddened to see fahel's recent anti-semitic diatribe.
Try watching PressTV for a few nights, or Hamas TV and you'll soon also be brainwashed into thinking Jews are monkeys and pigs and Nazis.
It takes a certain amount of objectivity, sense and humanity to see beyond the propaganda. What is sad is that the fred1news and to a much lesser extent the haystacks of the world are the ones who are even worse - and yeah yeah yeah, some of their best friends are Jews - yeah yeah yeah - heard that one before - usually from the worst anti-semites - or the ones in the villages of the Pale of Settlement of Germany and Eatern Europe who were the first to volunteer to help the Nazi extermination squads in their "work".
Cue anger, righteous indignation and denial - par for the course...........

Metro. Apl.16.
Gaza Strip.
Two palestinians,(according to Al-Mizan) Mohammed Ismael and Nasser Abu
Freh were executed by a Hamas military court after being found guilty
of collaborating with Isreal.
As an aside, did anybody see the video on Utube, where the Hamas military
drove up and murded the groom and others because they were singing (on the
street) on the way to the wedding?

'In The Land of the B#

"people to exist in their own homeland?"

it is not their own homeland. It is the land of the Palestinians taken from them.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with "anti-Jewish hatreds born of two thousand years of being told by your religion that the Jews "killed God". " I am an atheist and I am anti-Israel, but NOT anti Jewish. I don't care what religion the people who live in Israel believe in. It is not relevant and not important.

Jews have lived there since biblical times.............why do you think the bible refers to "Israel"?
Yes, a homeland for the Jews on a tiny sliver of their ancestral land in the midst of 22 Muslim states. What a terrible thing according to your anti-semitic prejudice..........the land of Israel was divided up between Jews and Arabs by the UN to be fair.

"I don't care what religion the people who live in Israel believe in. It is not relevant and not important." Not to you living in your fantasy land, but it does to the people, both Muslim and Jewish, who live there. But of course they don't matter to your left-liberal anti-semitic ethos. You don't think you're anti-semitic..........no, neither was Eichmann...just "objective", huh?

Some people hate Arabs or Muslims. I don't, not in the slightest.

Some people don't like this Israeli government, including me.
Some people hate Jews.

I can tell the difference........I don't see those who disagree with the Isreali government as being automatically anti-semitic I don't tar them with that brush.

There are those here who plainly are anti-semitic and one of the markers is those who deny Jews a homeland of their own in their ancestral country (shared with the Palestinian population as indeed it already is, though you would say it is predominantly Jewish - so what, 22 Arab countries are predominantly Muslim, nothing wrong with that).
Let me tell you something, what you and your sort think doesn't matter a toss.
Israel will continue to exist and prosper, despite you and your type.
Maybe because of you and your type........try thinking about that.......if you can.

I am not anti-semitic. I am anti-Israel. I would feel the same if it was full of French people, Christians, Hindus etc. the Bible has no bearing on the problem. You might as well decide land distribution by the use of other works of fiction. You could use Treasure Island or a book about fairies. I am sure Israel will prosper, but I don't have to suppoert their behaviour. They persecute the Palestinians and cause them to live in squalor, they are building illegally on land that belongs to others, they have claimed Jerusalem for their own. The religious right parties hold the coalition Israeli governemnt to hostage and cause stupid policies. Not surprising that the Palestinians fire rocket at Israel and attack the illegal settlements.

"I am anti-Israel"

Have you been to Israel? Spoken to lots of different people? Thought not. Understand anything about the country or its people other than your prejudices?
Don't bother answering. It's quite obvious.

"I am anti-Israel"

How ludicrous that sounds.

I am anti-Pakistan..

I am anti-Wales.

I am anti-Nigeria.

I am anti-India.

I am anti-China.

I am anti-foreigner.

I am antediluvian.

I am ignorant.

OK. Got the message.

I'm anti Kopites, but life goes on! Sorry this thread needs a wee bit of humour eh, far to serious.

Just anti the behaviour of certain countries. Not many. Zimbabwe, Israel, China, North Korea, Iran and a few others. Not the people (although some of them), but the governments of those countries. It is ignorance to style all ani-Israel comments as anti-semitic. That particular attitude never did have any credibility. I have Jewish friends who are anti-Israel. I was speaking to a parent of one of my son's friends the other day. Both parents are Jewish, but the father is a non-believer and very anti-Israel. His wife is pro-Israel. You will find plenty of prominent Jews on the internet who are anti-Israel.

Certainly too serious. Maybe we need a few anti Christian jokes or anti god jokes.

Plenty of orthodox Jewss are against Israel's policies in Palestine. Look at this web site

http://www.nkusa.org/

ITL.

In general I concur with what Hays has written.

Like Hays, I am an atheist, do not believe in there is any god given right, or that Hebrew mythology gives any real bases for the establishment of the State of Israel.

(Otherwise, I being a Pagan, would claim England back for the Welsh and administer the English as I saw fit. Mind we do that already.)

However, the State of Israel has been established and is generally recognised it. To revoke the actions, which led to its formation, would probably be impossible and not gainful, even if it were possible.

But I suggest you read the initial British statement, which is below, regarding the policies regarding the formation of a state for Jews and pay attention to part I have put in bold.

I, like many others, do not consider that the Israeli administrations under influence of the Zionist zealots and far right wingers, have not complied with the intentions or mandates place on them by the United Nations and International law.

I am not defending Arabs or Palestinian terrorist or military actions, but see the actions of Israel as disproportionate, and the annexing of land and the confiscation of Palestinian land as part of their ongoing provocation.
Also, the Israeli administration of the Arab borders, and the limitations place on the functioning of Arabs in Gaza, I would consider criminal and against humanitarian principles.

Again, the use of murder squads (Mossad) to carry summary executions is illegal and murder.

At the end of the day, there will have to be compromise on all sides and eventually, they will have to sit around a table and talk and negotiate their way to a peace.

(It happened in Ireland, it will eventually it will happen in the Middle East, hopefully without increasing the murders being carried out by either side.)

Are far as me being anti-Semitic is concerned, those who know me would be unlikely to come to that judgement and I was not conscious of being anti-Israeli or for that matter any nationality.

Having said that, I am aware that I am not very enthusiastic, when regarding some of the features of different cultures and ethnic groups.

Similarly, I am not very enthusiastic about the values within some families in Welsh, English, Muslim or Catholic communities. That is my right.

I do admit, since I initiated this thread, that I have become more aware of the positioning by a certain number of posters, and surmise that some seem to be members of a Jewish lobbying group.

Unfortunately, I find their presentations as uncouth, and they do little to advance the cause of Israel, but ceased reading their postings a long time ago.

Those contributions were not argument, and I found them to be alienating.

The unfortunate response the sort posting is to group all Jews and Israelis together as one and the same.

I have not done so, and realise many Israelis and Jews would be offended by their presentations.

Israel needs friends, not blind support. Friends should be allowed to criticise, when they think it justifiable to do so..

==================================

From Wikipedia

The Balfour Declaration of 1917 (dated 2 November 1917) was a formal statement of policy by the British government stating that

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."[1]


The declaration was made in a letter from Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland, a Zionist organization. The letter reflected the position of the British Cabinet, as agreed upon in a meeting on 31 October 1917. It further stated that the declaration is a sign of "sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations."

================================

PS.

I would be interesting to know the background or "pressures" leading up to the negotiations.

(Edited Bold in wrong positions.)

During World War I, the British sought Jewish support in the fight against Germany. This and support for Zionism from Prime-Minister Lloyd-George[19] led to foreign minister, Lord Balfour making the Balfour Declaration of 1917, stating that the British Government "view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people"..."it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine".

The British invasion force, led by General Allenby, included a force of Jewish volunteers (mostly Zionists), known as the Jewish Legion.

It should be remembered that Allenby was also the funding source for Lawrence of Arabia, and was the effective creator of modern Arab nations including Saudia Arabia and Egypt.