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FUTURES Thread (SEXY)     

Crocodile - 22 Mar 2004 23:02

future2.gif

FUTURES

 

The idea behind this thread is to start a discussion on trading futures (& options) and of course to post any trading ideas if you have time.

We have many traders on MoneyAm who use futures but also many who are not sure what they but would like to know!

Futures were originally introduced as an insurance mechanism for farmers and manufacturers who wanted to fix a price for crops at a future date. The farmer wanted to be able to make plans knowing the price he would get for his crops. For the manufacturer, fixing the price meant that he could ensure consistency in the prices he charged. A future is an agreement (obligation) to buy or sell a given quantity of a particular asset, at a specified future date, at a pre-agreed price.

Futures market participants may be divided into two broad categories: Hedgers, who actually deal in the underlying commodity or financial instrument and seek to protect themselves against adverse price fluctuations, and speculators (Like Me!), who seek to profit from price swings.

It is a very efficient and cost effective way of buying or selling a wide choice of instruments such as the Indices, Bonds, Gold or currencies at very competitive rates. Some example prices can be seen on the future price box to the right.

If you buy & sell tracker stocks such As Lloyds or RBOS this can be a much cheaper way of trading your guess on the future market direction.

Futures are constantly moving so there is no wait for your stock to wake up! They can also move very quickly on breaking news so have to be traded with care.

I trade mainly the FTSE contract and I buy it or sell it in multiples of 1 Contract which are equivalent to 10 a point. Just as you would buy or sell a set number of equities ..

On the right is the $5 Dow Jones June mini contract which I also trade a lot, especially if Coronation street isn't on :-)

You can also use 'Spread Betting' to buy or sell the indices but this usually works out more expensive. However on the good side you can set stop losses at a cost.

For example Spread bet the DOW above at $5 a point and 4 point spread from the mid would mean buying at approx 10037 and selling at 10028. An initial LOSS simply by placing the order of around 8 points or $40

If I was trading this with Futures I would want to get inside the spread just as with 'Direct Access' with futures. And as with Level2 I can see how many orders are on the bid and offer. I would be charged around $5 (Or less) per trade and I would place a bid to buy at 1032 or a bid to sell at 1033. If I was filled I would be immediately 1 point in profit from the mid price. With the cost of the trade deducted it has really cost me nothing and I might even be in profit!

The Spread Betting Cost $40 against the Futures Cost of $10 or less! With any broker it is a good idea to bargain for the best deal you can get.

This is a very brief introduction to futures to see what the interest level is like.

I hope you join the thread, share your experiences and ask questions.

Also of course tell us which brokers you use and the best deals around!

Diego - 23 Mar 2004 06:08 - 2 of 11

Hi Croc,

What would be your advice on broker? What to look for etc. And what sort of margin and deposit (starting capital) can one expect from the broker?

Diego

2Abbey - 23 Mar 2004 08:21 - 3 of 11

I use ETrade for my platform. It has had its share of problems with reliability but perhaps no less than gni as I understand.

No Depth of Market which is something that I would like to use. Charts are at best average, and news is delayed. Upside is that there is no monthly cost.

Comments concerning gni would be welcome.

Cost for ETrade is 4.95 per contract and as Croc says contract size for the Ftse is 10 lots. I personally mostly do the Dax, the index is less defensive with more tech related stocks and no oils. Same price per trade, but in Euros, 7.13 per lot. It is 25 per point though which is around 16.50 at current rates.

The bigger the better as regards margin as the trades can easily go against you in a wild market, certainly as we have seen lately with these geopolitical factors. 10k should be sufficient providing you don't overtrade and exercise proper money managenment

Ivan7 - 23 Mar 2004 23:25 - 4 of 11

Hi

Well just noticed this thread on Futures!

As I work I can't trade UK so I trade the US.

I trade the SP500 with this company http://www.daytrade4less.com. They have daytrading margins for Dow, SP500 & NASDAQ (and others) of $400. Commissions are $7.50 per contract, round trip.

Ivan

Crocodile - 24 Mar 2004 22:35 - 5 of 11

Took a nice 35 points from the DOW this evening using this channel on the DOW
dow.gif
Currently paying 2.95 pounds each way on the FTSE and trading either side of the order book. Works out at almost zero cost trading!
$5.95 per trade on the DOW

Jumpin - 24 Mar 2004 23:16 - 6 of 11

Well done on that gain Croc. Personally I have given up trading intraday Dow cos of the volatility... you have to win far more than you lose just to break even. Prefer the much longer picture.

Crocodile - 25 Mar 2004 00:17 - 7 of 11

Jumpin, it certainly is a wild ride sometimes!

Jumpin - 25 Mar 2004 16:57 - 8 of 11

Yes, especially when there is a bull/bear fight going on!

Jumpin - 25 Mar 2004 22:42 - 9 of 11

Pleased I decided the bulls were going to win yesterday and closed my Dow and Dax shorts, and reversed and went long.. even added to my DAX long at 23:00 last night! :)

Yoyo - 26 Mar 2004 10:52 - 10 of 11

It all sounds so simple. Even if your no good getting it right, in theory you should achieve a 50% success rate and a 50% failure rate. Thus by cutting the losses quickly and letting the profits run, some kind of success should happen over all. Last week for the first time I banked 43 points on the ftse, most of that was in one day. This week I am -30 pts down on the ftse so far!! I'll keep practicing.

Jumpin - 26 Mar 2004 13:02 - 11 of 11

Yoyo, it isn't that simple, I worked out that you need to get around 60 to 70% winners to break even... because of the spread and because it can move so fast against you
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