Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

TM has been the prefect product placement in all this saga.

Doing exactly what she was voted in to do by Tory remainers in 2016.

To keep UK in some sort of EU guise.

Leave is Verboten.

I have watched for maybe 21/2 hours and totally agree ref TM, although I have doubts about the agreement in my very limited understanding of it.

Letter of no confidence submitted by Rees-Mogg

Here's Jacob Rees-Mogg's letter in full

The Rt. Hon. Sir Graham Brady, M.P.,
Chairman of the 1922 Committee,
House of Commons,
London, SW1A 0AA.

15th November 2018

A few weeks ago, in a conversation with the Chief Whip I expressed my concern that the Prime Minister, Mrs. Theresa May, was losing the confidence of Conservative Members of Parliament and that it would be in the interest of the Party and the country if she were to stand aside. I have wanted to avoid the disagreeable nature of a formal Vote of No Confidence with all the ill will that this risks engendering.

Regrettably, the draft Withdrawal Agreement presented to Parliament today has turned out to be worse than anticipated and fails to meet the promises given to the nation by the Prime Minister, either on her own account or on behalf of us all in the Conservative Party Manifesto.

That the Conservative and Unionist Party is proposing a Protocol which would create a different regulatory environment for an integral part of our country stands in contradistinction to our long-held principles. It is in opposition to the Prime Minister's clear statements that this was something that no Prime Minister would ever do and raises questions in relation to Scotland that are open to exploitation by the Scottish National Party.

The 2017 Election Manifesto said that the United Kingdom would leave the Customs Union. It did not qualify this statement by saying that we could stay in it via a backstop while Annex 2, Article 3 explicitly says that we would have no authority to set our own tariffs. It is also harder to leave this backstop than it is to leave the EU, there is no provision equivalent to Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

The Prime Minister also promised an implementation period which was the reason for paying £39 billion. As was made clear by a House of Lords report in March 2017 there is no legal obligation to pay anything. This has now become an extended period of negotiation which is a different matter.

The situation as regards the European Court of Justice appears to have wandered from the clear statement that we are taking back control of our laws. Article 174 makes this clear as does Article 89 in conjunction with Article 4.

It is of considerable importance that politicians stick to their commitments or do not make such commitments in the first place. Regrettably, this is not the situation, therefore, in accordance with the relevant rules and procedures of the Conservative Party and the 1922 Committee this is a formal letter of No Confidence in the Leader of the Party, the Rt. Hon. Theresa May.

I am copying this letter to the Prime Minister and the Chief Whip and although I understand that it is possible for the correspondence to remain confidential I shall be making it public.

Jacob Rees-Mogg

Ah nice to see some of you back...Have any of you Tories got the phone number for the 1922 club please?

JRM has just spoken publicly outside of the H of P to verbally explain the position as he sees it - and he is right.

TM's 'bullied through' deal, which has caused so many resignations, isn't what the British people voted for, particularly concerning the backstop arrangement over which we have no UK control.

"It is also harder to leave this backstop than it is to leave the EU, there is no provision equivalent to Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty."

i don't doubt JRM's sincerity, but the fact of the matter is that 48% of the country = those who bothered to vote! wanted to stay within eu

of the leavers, some wanted to pull up the drawbridge, many (i think) wanted quite a soft exit, and of course, to a similar greater or lesser extent, others wanted to stay in

the splits are throughout all areas of the population and voters of all hues

any deal negotiated would always have to be a compromise of some kind, and it seems to me that, after many months of exceedingly hard work and negotiation, is what has now been tabled

i'm sure there is much in this deal with which i would disagree, but if we are to leave eu - and i think i would still vote to do so, and my wife assuredly would - then i would far rather take what is now offered than exiting with no deal at all

Stan you know we blokes can't multitask that is something reserved for the female of the species, and I was watching Parliament.

Point taken George so excuse boots for you...now what about the rest of you ?

"those who bothered to vote! wanted to stay within eu

of the leavers, some wanted to pull up the drawbridge, many (i think) wanted quite a soft exit, and of course, to a similar greater or lesser extent, others wanted to stay in"

Perhaps some are realising they will have to pay for the sweeties and goodies that they were being told they could have for nothing.

Some others, many of the more still ardent "little englanders" appear to be xenophobic and hiding behind the banners of "independence" are "questioning" the effects of their said independence is going to have on them after their so-called victory. (The price to be paid.)

But even this latter group are beginning to grumble about the probable costs of their "success".
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A bit like the success felt by many after the 1914-18 war who asked: "what was it all about?".

This is the Dell Boy, a hero of the tory party who gave way to provocation and chose what he thought was an easy way to placate his party.

Politics, before national interests, comes to mind.

How many tory MP resignations so far TODAY?

Any left?

Is anybody other than Dil rioting on the streets yet?

-=-=-==

Unlike Theresa herself, I don't see her as current day Messiah, she knowingly picked up a poison chalice and tried to run with it, rather than making a thorough appraisal of the problems of so-called Brexit and then presenting HONESTLY the problems and having a sensible realistic review.

She is "toughing it out" to save her own face and a page in history.

I think Moggy may have shot his bolt rather foolishly.

In the event that 48 people do hand in letters and there is a no-confidence vote in Maggie Dismay in the near future, it's by no means certain that 158 Conservative MPs will vote against her and that she'll be ousted. And then, as you can only have one no-confidence vote a year....

He doesn't seem to shoot blanks.

Talking of blanks...what did happen to H/S? 😀

no one knows, not least because no one knows his true i/d

He's still contactable by the internal messaging service I see...As he's your friend I nominate you to contact him.

I think he is down at Tory Central Office canvassing to become PM.

Could be Fred could be, now as I remember showing a picture of one of his favourite MPs (closet of course) did seem to get a response from him. I will try again..

shame corbyn didn't look that smart last sunday
on that day, he was clearly intentionally scruffy, wore an almost invisible poppy, and slouched up to place his wreath ...... what sort of example of showing much deserved respect is that?

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stan - h/s was never my friend, though i probably agreed with his views more often that i do with fred's ..... i had a feeling that he was somewhere within the tory party in its widest sense, but more than that i do not know