Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I think Moggy may have shot his bolt rather foolishly.

In the event that 48 people do hand in letters and there is a no-confidence vote in Maggie Dismay in the near future, it's by no means certain that 158 Conservative MPs will vote against her and that she'll be ousted. And then, as you can only have one no-confidence vote a year....

He doesn't seem to shoot blanks.

Talking of blanks...what did happen to H/S? 😀

no one knows, not least because no one knows his true i/d

He's still contactable by the internal messaging service I see...As he's your friend I nominate you to contact him.

I think he is down at Tory Central Office canvassing to become PM.

Could be Fred could be, now as I remember showing a picture of one of his favourite MPs (closet of course) did seem to get a response from him. I will try again..

shame corbyn didn't look that smart last sunday
on that day, he was clearly intentionally scruffy, wore an almost invisible poppy, and slouched up to place his wreath ...... what sort of example of showing much deserved respect is that?

============

stan - h/s was never my friend, though i probably agreed with his views more often that i do with fred's ..... i had a feeling that he was somewhere within the tory party in its widest sense, but more than that i do not know

“stan - h/s was never my friend,”...oh yeah I forgot you haven’t got any 🤣

The lovely Teresa is going to talk more bollards in a few minutes...I just can’t wait can you 😴

No sign of Dil or H/S on this exciting day I have a theory...they’re run away together.

Oi cynic , the only idiot on here is you ... the one person who thinks May has done a good job.

Even Fred and Stan aren't that stupid.

I'm back Stan , sorry been out since early this morning have you missed me :-)

Missed you? Yeah got a lousy shot that’s my trouble now about the Haystack disappearance...what yer done with him?

Oh yes thanks for the compliment 👍😄

Anything for you Stan :-)

It looks like the deal won't get past the house of commons....there is also a lot of political manoeuvring at the moment which brings me to think that some : "et tu Brutus" tactics are going on !....

Great days theatre. Beats anything on TV for suspense and drama.

Grudging respect for TM. Many would crumble under the weight of attacks directed at her.

Looking forward to the box set of the series.

9 horrors in May’s Brexit deal
by Luke Lythgoe | 15.11.2018

Theresa May’s Brexit deal – all 585 pages of which was finally published last night – has been greeted with outrage and ministerial resignations from both hardline Brexiters and moderates in her party. Here are nine reasons why.

Transition to 2099?
If there’s no new trade deal by the end of the transition (which looks unlikely), then one option is to extend. But for how long? Theresa May talked about a “short extension” in the Commons today. But the deal says “up to [31 December 20XX]” – so, theoretically, until the end of the century if necessary.

Extra money to extend transition
We’ve already agreed to pay at least £39 billion to settle our debts with the EU. Now we have confirmation that the UK will pay an “appropriate amount” if we need to extend the transition. The EU may argue the appropriate amount is quite high.

Following EU rules without a say
This applies to the 21-month transition period, and any extension. But we would also have to follow many EU rules if we instead activate the controversial “backstop” if a deal isn’t in place by the end of the transition. This puts the UK in a customs union with the EU and following 100 pages of “level playing field” rules on things like workers’ rights, environmental protections, state aid and tax – so UK companies don’t unfairly compete with EU ones. All without a seat at the top table.

We can’t end backstop unilaterally
The UK and EU must “decide jointly” to end this rule-taking backstop arrangement. That will depend on being able to keep the Irish border open without it. But that will probably rely on either some magical technology that hasn’t been invented yet or the UK agreeing to a very close future relationship with the EU. The backstop means endless purgatory.

European court gets final say
If there are any disputes around the backstop arrangement, then 25 arbitrators selected by the UK and EU will attempt to settle them. However, this panel will not decide on any matters that involve the “interpretation of a concept of (EU) law”. That will be done by the European Court of Justice – whose jurisdiction May promised to end.

Backstop still splits Northern Ireland from Great Britain
The backstop will prevent customs checks for goods moving between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But it also includes a long list of single market rules Northern Ireland alone will need to follow to keep the border open. That means more regulatory checks. Indeed, the European Commission’s analysis says “checks at ports and airports will need to continue, but will be increased in scale”. This separation from the rest of the UK is a “blood-red line” for the DUP.

Backstop puts UK on back foot in trade talks
Theresa May says both sides “never want to have to use” the backstop. There’s even a goodwill clause in the deal to that effect. But 21 months is an unrealistic time frame for such an ambitious agreement. And because the backstop is so heavily in the EU’s favour, that gives them a huge amount of leverage as the UK scrabbles for a quick deal.

Gibraltar out on a limb
Spain hasn’t yet pushed its case strongly over the Rock. But the current arrangement will “cease to apply at the end of the transition period”, except in the case of workers’ rights. That means Gibraltar’s air transport, fishing, environment, policing and customs will all be back up in the air.

Fishing spat kicked down the road
The sensitive dispute over EU fishing boats’ access to UK waters, and the free trade of UK fish into the EU, has been put off. All the deal promises is to aim for a separate UK-EU fisheries agreement before July 2020. It’s likely the fishermen will be hung out to dry.

Uncertainty also continues around lots of other things: services, immigration, security and our membership of the nuclear community Euratom. May’s deal locks the UK into a miserable immediate future whilst barely beginning to resolve the damaging uncertainty Brexit is causing. No wonder it is likely to go down in flames.

Edited by Hugo Dixon

M , reminds me of Thatcher's last days , she's in denial.

She tried hard but was her heart really in it ?

She should go now with dignity and let a real Brexiteer take over.

Dil
You may be right how about Jessa he wants us out of Europe?