Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

“stan - h/s was never my friend,”...oh yeah I forgot you haven’t got any 🤣

The lovely Teresa is going to talk more bollards in a few minutes...I just can’t wait can you 😴

No sign of Dil or H/S on this exciting day I have a theory...they’re run away together.

Oi cynic , the only idiot on here is you ... the one person who thinks May has done a good job.

Even Fred and Stan aren't that stupid.

I'm back Stan , sorry been out since early this morning have you missed me :-)

Missed you? Yeah got a lousy shot that’s my trouble now about the Haystack disappearance...what yer done with him?

Oh yes thanks for the compliment 👍😄

Anything for you Stan :-)

It looks like the deal won't get past the house of commons....there is also a lot of political manoeuvring at the moment which brings me to think that some : "et tu Brutus" tactics are going on !....

Great days theatre. Beats anything on TV for suspense and drama.

Grudging respect for TM. Many would crumble under the weight of attacks directed at her.

Looking forward to the box set of the series.

9 horrors in May’s Brexit deal
by Luke Lythgoe | 15.11.2018

Theresa May’s Brexit deal – all 585 pages of which was finally published last night – has been greeted with outrage and ministerial resignations from both hardline Brexiters and moderates in her party. Here are nine reasons why.

Transition to 2099?
If there’s no new trade deal by the end of the transition (which looks unlikely), then one option is to extend. But for how long? Theresa May talked about a “short extension” in the Commons today. But the deal says “up to [31 December 20XX]” – so, theoretically, until the end of the century if necessary.

Extra money to extend transition
We’ve already agreed to pay at least £39 billion to settle our debts with the EU. Now we have confirmation that the UK will pay an “appropriate amount” if we need to extend the transition. The EU may argue the appropriate amount is quite high.

Following EU rules without a say
This applies to the 21-month transition period, and any extension. But we would also have to follow many EU rules if we instead activate the controversial “backstop” if a deal isn’t in place by the end of the transition. This puts the UK in a customs union with the EU and following 100 pages of “level playing field” rules on things like workers’ rights, environmental protections, state aid and tax – so UK companies don’t unfairly compete with EU ones. All without a seat at the top table.

We can’t end backstop unilaterally
The UK and EU must “decide jointly” to end this rule-taking backstop arrangement. That will depend on being able to keep the Irish border open without it. But that will probably rely on either some magical technology that hasn’t been invented yet or the UK agreeing to a very close future relationship with the EU. The backstop means endless purgatory.

European court gets final say
If there are any disputes around the backstop arrangement, then 25 arbitrators selected by the UK and EU will attempt to settle them. However, this panel will not decide on any matters that involve the “interpretation of a concept of (EU) law”. That will be done by the European Court of Justice – whose jurisdiction May promised to end.

Backstop still splits Northern Ireland from Great Britain
The backstop will prevent customs checks for goods moving between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But it also includes a long list of single market rules Northern Ireland alone will need to follow to keep the border open. That means more regulatory checks. Indeed, the European Commission’s analysis says “checks at ports and airports will need to continue, but will be increased in scale”. This separation from the rest of the UK is a “blood-red line” for the DUP.

Backstop puts UK on back foot in trade talks
Theresa May says both sides “never want to have to use” the backstop. There’s even a goodwill clause in the deal to that effect. But 21 months is an unrealistic time frame for such an ambitious agreement. And because the backstop is so heavily in the EU’s favour, that gives them a huge amount of leverage as the UK scrabbles for a quick deal.

Gibraltar out on a limb
Spain hasn’t yet pushed its case strongly over the Rock. But the current arrangement will “cease to apply at the end of the transition period”, except in the case of workers’ rights. That means Gibraltar’s air transport, fishing, environment, policing and customs will all be back up in the air.

Fishing spat kicked down the road
The sensitive dispute over EU fishing boats’ access to UK waters, and the free trade of UK fish into the EU, has been put off. All the deal promises is to aim for a separate UK-EU fisheries agreement before July 2020. It’s likely the fishermen will be hung out to dry.

Uncertainty also continues around lots of other things: services, immigration, security and our membership of the nuclear community Euratom. May’s deal locks the UK into a miserable immediate future whilst barely beginning to resolve the damaging uncertainty Brexit is causing. No wonder it is likely to go down in flames.

Edited by Hugo Dixon

M , reminds me of Thatcher's last days , she's in denial.

She tried hard but was her heart really in it ?

She should go now with dignity and let a real Brexiteer take over.

Dil
You may be right how about Jessa he wants us out of Europe?

Do you mean go to Dignity?

TM - Please Go Now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h42kzEA9l8Q

Nice one Fred - many of us will agree with that one I guess.

Brexit TEST for May: PM will need 50 Tory Brexiteers AND Labour rebels to pass deal

THERESA May said "difficult days lie ahead" after she announced her Brexit deal - but the Prime Minister now faces the biggest test of her political carer as she battles to get her agreement through Parliament.
By REBECCA PERRING (Express)
PUBLISHED: 14:47, Thu, Nov 15, 2018 | UPDATED: 14:59, Thu, Nov 15, 2018

Mrs May’s fight to get her proposal in place before Brexit day is just beginning as she faces an uphill struggle in the House of Commons where a ‘meaningful vote’ will take place in Parliament.

A vote is expected to take place in the Commons in December, where a simple majority of MPs will need to vote for the blueprint for the deal to be given the green light. But Mrs May could be forced to turn to her biggest critics - hardcore Tory Brexiteers and Labour rebels - as she wrestles to get her Brexit deal through Parliament. The magic number is 320, a majority of the 639 voting MPs, which excludes suspensions, the Speaker, three Deputy Speakers and seven Sinn Fein MPs who abstain from attending the UK Parliament.

The Parliament website lists 93 MPs who are ministers of Government and would therefore be bound to support Theresa May's Brexit plans owing to collective responsibility.

But with the shock resignations of her Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab and Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey, Mrs May is likely to fall short of the votes she needs from within her own party.

Loyalists to Mrs May and the Government would vote in favour of the deal, as well as a number of Brexiteer MPs who may have been spooked by the Prime Minister’s message that it was this deal, no deal or no Brexit.

But if all opposition parties voted against the deal, and they were joined by up to 40 Conservative rebels, the Government would be as many as 44 votes short of the 320 they need.

The Liberal Democrats, Greens and Plaid Cymru have said they are opposed to a deal, and it seems unlikely the Scottish National Party would support it given Nicola Sturgeon said the agreement would be "a bad one for Scotland".

The Democratic Unionist Party's stance on the Brexit deal is uncertain.

Arlene Foster has said the Prime Minister is "fully aware of our position and concerns" over Northern Ireland being treated differently to the rest of the UK.

Engulfed by division in the Tory ranks, Tory Brexiteer and chairman of the European Research Group, Jacob Rees-Mogg, has also submitted a letter of no confidence in the his party leader against what it sees as her capitulation to Brussels.

Mr Rees-Mogg has also claimed the ERG has 80 MPs ready to vote against Mrs May’s Brexit deal.

This means the embattled Tory leader could need to find up to 100 votes - but perhaps more realistically somewhat less - from elsewhere.

So the Prime Minister may well need to extend an olive branch to Labour, which also has its own divisions between those like Chuka Umunna who oppose Brexit, those like Caroline Flint who support it reluctantly because their constituents voted to leave, or those like Kate Hoey who are ardent Brexiteers.

If the Government was able to persuade as many as 40 Labour MPs to back the deal, and limit the number of Tory rebels to around 20, this could be enough to reach the magic number of 320.

The question is how many of Jeremy Corbyn's MPs are prepared to defy him and support the Prime Minister, reasoning that a no-deal Brexit, which they fear could bring about an economic disaster, would be a worse outcome.

The 48 letters from Conservative MPs needed to trigger a vote of no confidence in Theresa May’s leadership have been submitted to the 1922 Committee, a single -sourced Reuters Brexit editor is reporting.

Their BrexitCentral editor cites a source who he insists is always reliable.

Twitter: Jonathan Isaby @isaby tweets:

Unconfirmed and from a single (always previously reliable) source - but hearing that the 48 letters are in and Downing Street are preparing for a no confidence motion in Theresa May as Conservative leader...

471 people are talking about this

“Unconfirmed and from a single (always previously reliable) source – but hearing that the 48 letters are in and Downing Street are preparing for a no confidence motion in Theresa May as Conservative leader…” tweeted Reuters’ Jonathan Isaby who is well connected to Brexiters in the Conservative Party.

The Huffpost’s Paul Waugh just tweeted: “All Govt whips havejust been told to cancel Friday constituency engagements and convene inParliament today, one source tells me. Make of that what you will?”

Just look at some of the detail of May's deal .. it's a lock-in forever..



https://brexitcentral.com/nasty-surprises-smallprint-theresa-mays-brexit-deal/

10100. I don't. Her head is still above water.