This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

IMO, the greatest real threat to most people in the UK is fraud. The carousel VAT fraud costed UK, in 2006 alone, 8.3bn. The extra revenue, without the fraud, could have been used to pay for a wide range of public services - keeping hopspitals open, keeping rural POs open (merely 150m), more policing, military hospitals, medications for alheimers etc. The accumulated lost of tax revenue to fraud, wastage, corruption and incompetence amount to, IMO, to mass manslaughter (even murder). I hope MI5 and MI6 are tackling the threat.

Carousel fraud, wonder who the worst instigators are?

In Dubai, an entire criminal industry has grown up to service carousel fraud in Britain. Underground factories, mostly operated by Pakistani businessmen, have been equipped to change the serial numbers of mobile telephones, allowing them to be counted as new products each time they enter Britain. The growth of the racket has produced some startling statistics. This year, Dubai, which has a population of barely 900,000, officially became Britain's 10th-biggest trading partner. Suspicions were raised, however, when, in June last year, our exports to the kingdom soared to 529 million from just 204 million in the previous month. A spokesman for the Office for National Statistics admitted: "Something is wrong. This is organised crime."

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/pendlenews/pendleheadlines/display.var.947927.0.exbnp_man_held_in_bomb_swoop.php

Oh all those crooked pakistani businessmen in Dubai.
Won't mention all the White businesses in Ireland/Jersey etc.
Still If I can't stir up some hatred re islamaphobia...........
DON'T MENTION THE BNP BOMB FACTORY, WILL YOU.........
;-)

... and we all seem to agree that fraud, of such magnitude, is a serious problem and a
clear and present threat to us all, execpt those who profits millions from the fraud,
whoever and wherever they are. And I have no doubt some of them hold UK passports ... :-(((

How about reporting the details to the appropripate authorities ... ???

HM Revenue and Customs

If you have seen any suspicious activity in relation to Drugs, Illegal alchohol or tobacco sales or Tax Fraud you can report it to us in complete confidence our on free 24 hour hotline.

Do you have information about smuggling or any other suspicious activity? Call us in confidence on 0800 59 5000

There is also a specialist Tax Evasion Hotline dealing with income tax, corporation tax, capital gains tax, inheritance tax, VAT and National Insurance:
https://www.taxevasionhotline.co.uk/
Telephone 0800 788 887

US and UK forces doing a brilliant job once again;-)



LONDON (AFX) - Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh said he hoped that
half of the country's provinces would be under direct Iraqi control by the end
of this year.
Iraqis need to assume responsibility with the support of the international
community, he added.
"By the end of this year, nearly seven or eight provinces of Iraq out of 18
provinces will be under direct Iraqi security control," he said, after a meeting
here with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.
In an earlier BBC radio interview, Saleh cautioned against "panic" in the
debate on Iraq and spoke of the need for an "enduring partnership" with the US
and Britain.
"I'm obviously concerned about the debate both in the United States and in
Europe, I have to say, because there is too much of the pessimistic tone to this
debate, even I would say in certain circles a defeatist tone," he said.
He added that while reliance on the US-led coalition would lessen as Iraqi
troops take over, "we are not immune from the cross-currents of the region, we
will need an enduring partnership with our friends in the United States and the
United Kingdom".
The commanding officer of British forces in the southern city of Basra,
General Richard Shirreff, also indicated the need for his troops to remain in
the area after any handover.
There were still "huge problems" in the area, he said, but it should be
possible to set conditions for provincial Iraqi control "at some stage in the
New Year", he told BBC radio.
Although this would probably signal "a reasonable size reduction in British
forces" in southeast Iraq, Shirreff added: "It will not mean a complete
withdrawal from southeast Iraq because we will still be needed after provincial
Iraqi control to maintain links with the army".

With all the cut and shunt this thread has seriously gone down hill. Thoughts and comments from real people are whats needed not the daily rag clippings column!!

I had a look at the heading of this thread and wondered if I could change it to BABA's Rant or cut and page.

Failed as usual, but I am beginning to see the results I and others fore casted for IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN.

Why cannot the arch architects of the crazy policy be relieved of their posts and held responsible for their actions.

Is it time that Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes? Treason/traitor ............

By DAVID RENNIE - The Daily Telegraph
October 23, 200

PARIS France's leading gynecologists have challenged hard-line Muslims to bow to France's secular, "modern" rules of society and to stop insisting that female doctors examine their wives.

The heads of the French National College of Gynecologists and Obstetricians issued a public declaration rejecting any moves to undermine the principle that public hospitals are part of a secular state in which patients must accept being examined by a doctor of the opposite sex.

The move came after a consultant in Paris was punched by a Muslim who was concerned that a male doctor wanted to examine his wife after complications in childbirth. Though incidents of gynecologists being attacked on religious grounds remain rare, the declaration said some Muslims' rejection of secular norms appeared to be rising.

The college said: "Thirty years ago, Muslim women came into our hospitals without any alarm at being taken into the care of doctors, most of whom were men, and there were none of these difficulties. Why are things going backwards? It is for Islam to adapt to the liberties that all must possess in a modern state."

France's health minister, Xavier Bertrand, wrote to the college offering support and expressing his "indignation" at assaults on doctors.

The French constitutional requirement of the separation of state and religious activities led to a law banning the wearing of "conspicuous religious symbols" such as the Islamic headscarf in schools.

21:00 Today
BBC2
Suez: A Very British Crisis
Second of a three-part drama-documentary marking the 50th anniversary of the Suez crisis tells the story of how British Prime Minister Anthony Eden secretly plotted with France and Israel, behind America's back, not just to seize back the Suez Canal but to remove Egyptian President Nasser as well. Shimon Peres, then head of the Israeli Defence Ministry, speaks about the secret meeting in France and Douglas Hurd, then a junior diplomat at the UN, recalls how Britain became totally isolated


Pretext, pretext, pretext ...

Instead of rants about the veil maybe our Islamic friends should condemn.....
or denounce the Islamic government of Sudan for the on-going genocide of hundreds of thousands of black Africans.
Or maybe the fathers who cut their baby daughter's genitals in the name of Islam, many hundreds of thousands per year!


The West is waking up to the dangers of Islam!

Regime change 1950s-style

"
...

History's verdict

Finally, how far was public opinion deceived?

This is a sensitive charge. All politicians make mistakes, but mistakes based on deception carry an added stigma.

den kept the truth about Suez not only from the Americans, but from members of his own cabinet.

Certainly today's British prime minister, Tony Blair, would resist any comparison between himself and Eden.

He would say he made an honest mistake in claiming Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

His critics would say he "spun" the country into a war which achieved "regime change" but with disastrous consequences.

History's judgement on Britain's role over Suez has been damning.

It remains, to this day, a moment of shame - a warning to politicians and generals alike of the price to be paid for risky foreign adventures.

For history's verdict on the Iraq affair, we will have to wait a little longer."

BTW, the agreement with France and Israel which Britain signed remained a secret for over 40 years and became public only in the 1990's.

Fred, you might have to recreate this thread in 2050.

'The French constitutional requirement of the separation of state and religious activities led to a law banning the wearing of "conspicuous religious symbols" such as the Islamic headscarf in schools.'

Social cohesion and equlaity may be the intetion but it might be a difficult to enforce in practice. What are we going to do about people wearing crosses, scalp caps, turbans, have tatoos and those insisting on wearing helmets and very dark sunglasses indoors??

We feel a sense of inequality and arrogance, sometime danger, when we are unable to see the other person's eyes and faces in face-to-face communication.

Or on the other hand, do we need a minimal dress code, varied by gender, age, location, religion and culture?

(The recent case of the woman sunbathing naked in her garden, taken to court by the police, on complaint from her neighbour.)

AX, I will have to recreate myself first. Nobody else will want to.

fred, I hope you'll still be around then to create more threads of worthy debate and exchange of ideas :-)

IMHO, the existence of the signed agreement between Britain, France and Israel over Suez invasion had a profound influence over the British foreign policies and actions over the years.

Australian Muslim Cleric Suspended For Three Months



(RTTNews) - Australian Muslim cleric Sheikh Taj el-Din al-Hilali has been barred from preaching for up to three months, after comparing scantily dressed women to "uncovered meat". al-Hilali's comments, suggesting that women who did not wear a headscarf attracted sexual assault, have spaked a wave of protest. Sydney's mosque association said the suspension would give the cleric time to consider the impact of his words.

However Australian Premier John Howard said the punishment was insufficient. Many people. including some Muslim leaders have called for the cleric to be dismissed from office. al-Hilali sparked more controversy on Friday when, asked by reporters if he would resign, he responded: "After we clean the world of the White House first."

Maybe muslims should look up to the likes of the man below instead of the mad mullahs and clerics!

The autobiography of Muhammad Yunus, founder of the Grameen Bank.

In 1974, Professor Muhammad Yunus, a Bangladeshi economist from Chittagong University, led his students on a field trip to a poor village. They interviewed a woman who made bamboo stools, and learnt that she had to borrow the equivalent of 15p to buy raw bamboo for each stool made. After repaying the middleman, sometimes at rates as high as 10% a week, she was left with a penny profit margin. Had she been able to borrow at more advantageous rates, she would have been able to amass an economic cushion and raise herself above subsistence level.


Realizing that there must be something terribly wrong with the economics he was teaching, Yunus took matters into his own hands, and from his own pocket lent the equivalent of 17 to 42 basket-weavers. He found that it was possible with this tiny amount not only to help them survive, but also to create the spark of personal initiative and enterprise necessary to pull themselves out of poverty.


Against the advice of banks and government, Yunus carried on giving out 'micro-loans', and in 1983 formed the Grameen Bank, meaning 'village bank' founded on principles of trust and solidarity. In Bangladesh today, Grameen has 1,084 branches, with 12,500 staff serving 2.1 million borrowers in 37,000 villages. On any working day Grameen collects an average of $1.5 million in weekly installments. Of the borrowers, 94% are women and over 98% of the loans are paid back, a recovery rate higher than any other banking system. Grameen methods are applied in projects in 58 countries, including the US, Canada, France, The Netherlands and Norway.


Muhammad Yunus is that rare thing: a bona fide visionary. His dream is the total eradication of poverty from the world. 'Grameen', he claims, 'is a message of hope, a programme for putting homelessness and destitution in a museum so that one day our children will visit it and ask how we could have allowed such a terrible thing to go on for so long'. This work is a fundamental rethink on the economic relationship between the rich and the poor, their rights and their obligations. The World Bank recently acknowledged that 'this business approach to the alleviation of poverty has allowed millions of individuals to work their way out of poverty with dignity'.


Credit is the last hope left to those faced with absolute poverty. That is why Muhammad Yunus believes that the right to credit should be recognized as a fundamental human right. It is this struggle and the unique and extraordinary methods he invented to combat human despair that Muhammad Yunus recounts here with humility and conviction. It is also the view of a man familiar with both Eastern and Western cultures on the failures and potential for good of industrial countries. It is an appeal for action: we must concentrate on promoting the will to survive and the courage to build in the first and most essential element of the economic cycle Man.


Muhammad Yunus was born in 1940 in Chittagong, the business centre of what was then Eastern Bengal. He was the third of 14 children of whom five died in infancy. Educated in Chittagong, he was awarded a Fulbright scholarship and received his Ph.D. from Vanderbilt University, Nashville, Tennessee. In 1972 he became head of the Economics Department at Chittagong University. He is the founder and managing director of the Grameen Bank. In 1997, Professor Yunus led the worlds first Micro Credit Summit in Washington, DC.


Alan Jolis, co-author of Banker to the Poor, is an American journalist and writer, now living in Sweden. His books include Love and Terror, Speak Sunlight (a memoir of childhood) and several childrens novels. He is a contributor to Vogue, Architectural Digest, the Wall Street Journal, the International Herald Tribune and other periodicals.


If I could be useful to another human being, even for a day, that would be a great thing. It would be greater than all the big thoughts I could have at the university.


Muhammad Yunus


I only wish every nation shared Dr Yunus and the Grameen Banks appreciation of the vital role that girls and women play in the economic, social and political life of our societies.

US First Lady Hillary Clinton


By giving poor people the power to help themselves, Dr Yunus has offered them something far more valuable than a plate of food. He has offered them security in its most fundamental form.

Former US President Jimmy Carter

barwoni, excellent post 1199. If he is as described, then the world need more bankers like Muhammad Yunus.

Somewhat off topic in relation to Bush/Blair but the white collar crime issue is interesting.

Criminal justice system is good at catching small time crooks and the nation is hysterical about drugs issues, abducted children and social security fraud.

Somehow the billions that it costs the nation in white collar crime goes unnoticed or is even regarded as fair game. FSA has only ever made one prosecution.