Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

It`s nice to be loved, is it not Fred?

LOL - It will all come out in the wash, never mind if the game is about brinkmanship - she pulled it off last time against all the odds and she will do it again and again, then everyone(almost) will be happy and peace will return, and there will be years to sort it all out and maybe by then under Labour rule and with a new leader of the Party. That should be fun.

CT

It depends on what others consider necessary for one to do, or to be, in order to be loved. Often, it is preferable to walk alone.
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Some “love” can be treacherous as T May is finding out.

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What irritates me about last night's HP voting, was the number of people shouting
that the “people” have voted and “dissenters” should give way to their form of “democracy”, but really meaning they want the authority of government contained in the hands of a small narcissistic oligarchy of “Brexiters” (little Englanders) who show little respect of all of the general public as a whole and blackguarding those with different views.

Resembles in many ways of the celebrations and how the general public in Germany were manipulated in the thirties

I think T May and many in her “present day party” are vain, self-more interested and thinking more of their places in history, than what is of benefit to the “country” as a whole. I think the present tory period of government will be judged a period of disastrous failure.

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But it ain’t all over yet.

Into the valley of Death. Rode the six hundred.

Hils , my take on it all is that the ball is now firmly in the EU's court.

May goes to Brussels with a proposal to replace the back stop and if the EU refuse to budge then they will be blamed for the possibility of a no deal Brexit happening in eight weeks.
Pressure will come from individual EU members for compromise and opinion in the UK and possibly Parliament will harden against the EU if there is no softening of their position.
No deal hasn't been taken off the table and the Irish border problem will become the EU's problem if we leave with no deal as UK and Ireland will not impose a hard border whatever the EU say. This should be spelt out in no uncertain terms to the EU.

How it will end , who knows but as long the clock keeps ticking I'm happy.

it is a reasonable assumption that there have already been constructive talks between TM and the relevant EU guys

We can but hope cynic , we all knew deep down that this would go to the wire.

That's it Fred , you keep looking on the bright side.

When my children were young, I used to ask them what part of 'NO' they didn't understand.

Maggie Dismay has already been told 'NO' by the EU on many occasions. She's in her 70's and she still doesn't get it!

The backstop can clearly be solved. That much was clear last week when the EU let slip that an alternative would be found in the event of no deal.

nor did MT and until she lost the plot in the last couple of years, she did great service to this country in all sorts of ways ....... and yes, i would agree that some of the "collateral damage" was awful though arguably inevitable given the uncompromising militancy of scargill and others of that ilk

It is always somebody else's fault.

"nor did MT and until she lost the plot in the last couple of years, she did great service to this country in all sorts of ways ....... and yes, i would agree that some of the "collateral damage" was awful though arguably inevitable given the uncompromising militancy of scargill and others of that ilk''

Alf your undoubted delusions over the years continue...do see someone about them old bean.

MT turned this country around and saved it from the slippery slope it was heading down. Successive weak Labour governments had succumbed to extreme union pressure. MT was more than ready for the fight with Scargill. She built up coal stocks as soon as elected. She knew Scargill would attempt to bring down the democratically elected government. It was only going to end one way.

She also got fatally burned by refusing to listen and let go when told that her pet project would cause civil unrest and bring about her downfall.

Hmmm. I wonder if Maggie Dismay's pet project will be her downfall.

H/S, delusional at the time and now.

The reduction in the size of the NCB was inevitable. Painful yes but everyone in the industry knew that the small underground collieries in the UK couldn't compete with the cheap open-cast coal from Australia and South Africa. A lot of good, hard working men lost their jobs but that has been the way since the industrial revolution. Not nice when you are affected but it happens and must if the country is to progress. I worked in two pits, Ledston Luck near Kippax, Yorkshire and Cronton near Whiston, Lancs. Fortunately, I was young enough to change direction. Many men weren't.

Hays,

Was Maggie a soothsayer or an agent provocateur?

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IT,

Jesus, I agree.

Part of the problem was worked out coal seams and general geology, making difficulties for "mechanized " working. (Hence cost of production plus wastage.)

Many saw the problems earlier in 30s but more so in 50s on.

Some of the arguments were not closing of unprofitable pits, but the manner it was done.

If it had started earlier and been more gradual with "retraining" of the "workforce" and gradual creating of "lighter industry" some of the conflicts could have been avoided.

Working relationships in some pits between management and workforce were good.

Some relationships were B. awful with faults on both sides.

Interesting period of how not to run a country.

An old and ageing industry Fred. Good men all round I found. I don't blame Scargill for what he tried but he was pissing against the wind. As you say, thin seams, ofter fractured, and old infrastructure. Both pits I worked in had mechanised faces but manually operated face props and all the support packing was done by hand. Cronton had a steam driven winder, while Ledston still had pit ponies to pull steel sets and timber. Can't compete against bulk open pit mining like that.

Hils , what part of OUT do the remainers and the EU not understand ?



Bet they could open the withdrawal agreement faster than you could say bobs your uncle if we said we wanted to stay in the single market , etc , etc.

Stuff them , keep running the clock down Mrs May they need that 39 billion more than we need their idea of a deal.

To be fair, the Ruhr Vally in Germany experienced identical problems but they managed to successfully navigate from the production industry of the 60's to the service sector of today, whilst maintaining a pretty constant level of gainful employment.

If you stay in the EU, you'll be able to ask them the secrets of their success. The Germans mostly speak English.

:o)

It , Scargill was a clown just looking for a fight. If he had gone about things properly there would have been a lot less suffering.

A lot in S Wales to this day blame him as much as Maggie for the way things panned out. He refused a ballot because he knew he wouldn't win and relied on the loyalty of areas like S Wales to go along with him regardless.

He refused a ballot because he knew he wouldn't win and relied on the loyalty of areas like S Wales to go along with him

Where else have I heard that phrase recently?