and still that useless ED isstill being paid dam disgrace

rather polite using useless......mind you another yank idiot bischoff is there too now

Lloyds in talks to hand HBOS land assets to housebuilders
Bellway, Barratt and Persimmon linked to tentative discussions over 'land giveaway' plan
Proposals could prevent further crash in land values sparked by sale of HBOS's vast holdings

Lloyds Banking Group is in preliminary talks to give away swaths of its land assets built up during HBOS's disastrous investment and lending strategy.

Lloyds is tentatively discussing handing over major HBOS land holdings to a select group of Britain's leading housebuilders. The plan would see thousands of new homes built in a series of profit-sharing joint ventures, with Lloyds recouping cash once the houses have been sold.

In recent weeks, the FTSE-250 quoted builder Bellway has approached Lloyds to discuss the proposal. Other builders including Barratt Developments and Persimmon are also thought to be involved in talks.

"This is beginning to stir," said a senior executive at one of the UK's leading housebuilders. "[Talks] are devoid of specifics and are tentative but it's a logical step."

Formal agreements will only be signed once Lloyds enters the government's asset protection scheme or raises cash in the City through a rights issue. There is increasing speculation that Lloyds' 23bn capital raising plan is nearing completion, with a 12bn rights issue and 11bn new loan package designed to boost the fallen bank's shattered balance sheet.

For Lloyds and the bombed-out housebuilding sector, "the land giveaway" plan is tempting as it would prevent a further crash in land values sparked by a mass sale of HBOS's vast land holdings, and so protect asset valuations on bank and construction firms' balance sheets.

HBOS's commercial loan book grew to 109bn by 2007, with a huge proportion linked to commercial property and housebuilding. It is likely HBOS owns enough land to build well over 150,000 houses double the number that will be built in England and Wales this year.

For the building sector, which has laid off about 250,000 workers in the recession, the plan would also ensure steady work with little risk at a time when the UK is on course to see the lowest number of homes built since the second world war.

A senior source close to discussions between Bellway and Lloyds said: "There's been dialogue. Lloyds is trying to assimilate what it has got and is looking at forming joint ventures. And Bellway has made a success of working with Tesco on building homes, so it is interested."

Under Peter Cummings, its former head of corporate banking, HBOS became the property industry's bank of choice. It lent cash to private equity and management buyouts of building firms and took equity stakes in businesses such as Crest Nicholson and McCarthy & Stone.

The collapse of the property market was partly responsible for the forced sale of HBOS to Lloyds 13 months ago. Inheriting vast tracts of land could also cause problems for Royal Bank of Scotland, which could copy what Lloyds is doing, as neither bank has the internal expertise to maximise profits from property

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/oct/25/lloyds-hbos-land-builders

m
ref your posts on the other lloy thread, have you posted these on the wrong thread in error? why not on this one? i must say it is an easy mistake when we have 2 threads running at same time.
i do hope you wont think me "stalking " you. its not something i had ever thought about or considered, just never entered my thought process.
you may like to read page 22 in its entirety and decide if there is or is not a "stalker" on the other thread . please decide for yourself if we have a "stalker" or not, and i if so who it might be.
as always please do your own research.
regards
jkd

Is Wall Street about to sneeze?

Oct. 26 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Standard & Poors 500 Index is about 40 percent overvalued and headed for a drop as central banks pull back on securities purchases that pushed up asset prices, according to economist Andrew Smithers.

Declines are likely because banks will need to sell more shares to raise capital, the economist and president of research firm Smithers & Co. said in an Oct. 23 interview at Bloombergs Tokyo office. A 40 percent tumble from the S&P 500s price at the end of last week of 1,079.60 would take the gauge to 647.76, below its March low.

Markets are very vulnerable to an end of quantitative easing, said Smithers, 72, who recommended avoiding stocks in 2000 just as the U.S. benchmark entered a two-year bear market. Central banks, theyve got to stop some time and if that happens everything will come down.

Central banks from the Federal Reserve to the Bank of England last year embarked on unprecedented measures to flood credit markets with cash in order to rescue the global financial system from the worst crisis since the Great Depression.

Those purchases may be nearing an end, said Smithers, who worked for 27 years at S.G. Warburg & Co. where he ran the investment management business. The Feds emergency liquidity programs including the Term Auction Facility and commercial paper purchases have shrunk as the central bank completes the scheduled purchases of housing debt and Treasuries. Bank of England policy makers voted unanimously at their latest meeting to leave the asset purchase program unchanged, minutes showed.

Asset Prices

Asset purchases have doubled the size of the Feds balance sheet to $2.1 trillion since the start of the current financial crisis. The Bank of England has spent 175 billion pounds ($286 billion) over the last seven months to rescue the economy.

The boost to asset prices globally helped send the S&P 500 up by 60 percent from its 12-year low on March 9. Crude-oil prices have more than doubled from last years bottom in December, reaching as high as $82 a barrel. This month, a Hong Kong apartment sold for a record price-per-square foot.

The S&P 500 climbed 1.1 percent to 1,090.89 as of 10:07 a.m. today in New York.

Quantitative easing has set off another sharp, and so far containable asset bubble, Smithers said. But if it gets too high and starts to come down then well go straight back into recession.

Stopped Buying

The economist said that he stopped buying equities in the 1990s because of expensive valuations and began purchasing them again only for a brief period during the lows of the current crisis.

The worst performance by U.S. stocks compared with junk bonds since at least 1986 is making some investors even more bullish on equities. While owning debt in the riskiest companies has paid about the same as the Standard & Poors 500 Index over the last 23 years, bonds are returning more than twice as much in 2009, according to Merrill Lynch & Co. and Bloomberg data.

Barclays Plc and ING Groep NV are increasing share purchases on speculation that improving corporate earnings will prolong the rally in equities and shrink the gap again. Profits for S&P 500 companies are forecast to climb 53 percent over the next two years as the Federal Reserve holds interest rates close to zero to end the worst recession since the 1930s, according to analyst estimates compiled by Bloomberg.

2000 Call

Smithers, along with fellow economist Stephen Wright, argued that U.S. equities were overvalued in a March 2000 book the two co-authored entitled Valuing Wall Street. The S&P 500 Index plunged 49 percent over 2 1/2 years from a record high reached that month.

He based his prediction in the book on Tobins Q, an indicator of whether the market is overvaluing or undervaluing company assets compared with their replacement cost. He uses both the Q ratio, as well as a cyclically adjusted price-to- earnings ratio compiled by Yale Universitys Robert Shiller, for his estimate that U.S. shares are 40 percent overvalued.

In his latest book published in July, Wall Street Revalued, Smithers argues central banks need to police asset prices such as equities, real estate and debt in order to prevent the bubble and crash cycle seen in recent years.

Imperfectly Efficient

In the book he proposes a successor to the efficient markets hypothesis, naming it the imperfectly efficient market hypothesis. Smithers contends that asset prices rotate around a fair value level that can be objectively measured, whereas efficient market theorists say assets are always valued at the correct price and therefore need no regulation by authorities.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said on Oct. 19 asset bubbles present a challenge that Asian governments will have to address in the future. That contrasts with his 2002 statement that monetary policy cant be directed finely enough to guide asset prices.

Not all equity markets are as overpriced as the U.S., Smithers said. Japan may be the worlds cheapest major market though he doesnt forecast short-term gains from betting on the nations stocks.

Profit margins at Japanese companies are likely to improve as companies invest less, lowering depreciation costs, he said. Depreciation eats up about two-thirds of earnings in Japan, compared with less than half for U.S. corporations, according to Smithers. Firms plan to cut capital spending 10.8 percent this year, the Bank of Japans quarterly Tankan survey released this month showed.

Investment, Depreciation

Its quite likely that Japan is the only significant market in the world that is not seriously overvalued, he said. When investment comes down, depreciation comes down.

The economist also said banks such as Goldman Sachs Group Inc. will likely break up when they become subject to sliding- scale capital requirements that penalize them for being too large. Rising profits at financial institutions has largely been the result of shrinking competition in market-making, which has in turn provided banks with inside information on trading patterns, Smithers said.

Market-making has become a doomsday machine, Smithers said. People are arrogant and think they can do wonders and theyll be all too happy to split off. And you should raise the capital requirements until they do split off.

60p looks like good support

As long as over half the world is experiencing growth, over 7%, we will now face the problems you are discussing here. Growth and increasing land price in China, India, and many other highly populated countries will helpthe developed countries.

Remember people over there have no debt, and can buy the same houses in USA at cheaper price than in their own countries.

I don't think so ahoj.

masters profits will soon be gone

Handle has just fallen off his cup.

if he's a day-trader, then maybe not, but i must say i find (a) his method far too esoteric for me and (b) i cannot believe peeps can actually make decent profits day in, day out as a day-trader - it's too akin to backing horses as far as i can see, though i am sure someone will highlight otherwise

It's definitely possible, cynic, particularly using margin, but you have to watch the screen all day and be ruthless. I decided many years ago now that intraday wasn't what I wanted so trade in timescales from days to weeks/months. Some are actual shares and some are CFDs.

It suits me and my lifestyle far better. ;-))

I just shut my eyes chuck a dart and buy whatever , works for me :-)

It's now down around 35% from its high .... do you use a stop loss mr rsi ?

Lloyds, Royal Bank of Scotland and Northern Rock will be broken up and parts of their businesses sold off to create three new banks, it emerged last night.


Government sources said ministers were "determined" to see more competition in the market, following the 1.2 trillion bailout of the sector which resulted in the loss of three independent banks and several building societies.

The European Union will today approve the split of Northern Rock into two sections, a "good", profitable, bank with no bad debt, and a "bad" bank. Ministers will begin exploring sale options at the start of next year when the split happens and a deal could be finalised before the general election. The remaining "bad" bank will remain in state hands for the time being although sales of "tranches" of the more risky mortgages it holds will be explored in the longer term.

The Lloyds and RBS sell-offs will follow over the next three to five years and will be supervised by UK Financial Investments, the government body set up to oversee taxpayers' investment in the banks.

The Government is understood to have made clear that existing larger operators will be banned from participating in the sales.

Ministers want to drive competition in a sector they believe is too concentrated in the hands of the "Big Four" of Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds and RBS. Virgin Money is known to be watching the situation closely and is in talks to add former Northern Rock chairman Bryan Sanderson to its board ahead of a possible bid for Northern Rock.

Tesco is another company that could be enticed into an auction as it seeks to grow its financial services business.

Spain's Banco Santander, which owns Abbey, Alliance & Leicester and part of Bradford & Bingley, may be allowed to get involved because it is significantly smaller than the big banking groups in Britain. But it could still be frustrated by the Government's determination to attract new entrants.

"We are keen to see greater competition in the banking sector as soon as possible," said a government source.

A deal to buy "good" Northern Rock would bring a new entrant around 20bn of deposits together with a portfolio of low-risk mortgages and a platform to expand operations that remain concentrated in the North-east nationwide.

Lloyds is expected to face a forced reduction in its share of the retail banking market from 30 per cent to 25 per cent, with the disposal of more than a seventh of its 3,000 branches expected.

It has been desperately seeking support in the City for a share issue of up to 15bn to keep it out of the Government's asset protection scheme that will cover it against losses from up to 260bn of risky loans.

But even if Lloyds can achieve this, it will be forced to sell parts of itself as a consequence of the Government's injection of nearly 15bn to recapitalise the bank at the height of the financial crisis. That will be seen as a blow to Eric Daniels, chief executive, who indicated at the bank's recent results that he did not expect to make significant disposals. A spokesman said: "We continue to work with European regulators."

Royal Bank of Scotland, meanwhile, is working on plans to sell off a "couple of hundred" branches, including RBS branded outlets in the UK and NatWest's Scottish branches. It is certain to join the government scheme although how much will be protected is not yet certain.

Final details on the Lloyds and RBS disposals are set to be announced alongside details of the asset protection scheme.

But an indication of the EU's "get tough" approach came on Monday when ING, which owns the ING Direct savings bank in Britain, said it would split itself in two to satisfy watchdogs unhappy at its bailout by the Dutch government.

Britain's banking sector was further consolidated on Monday with the announcement by Barclays of a deal to buy Standard Life Bank.

Government sources said that while the new banks would be relatively small compared with the big four, they hoped they would prove fast moving and innovative.

The effect Standard Life Bank had on the market when it was launched has been noted, although its activities were constrained by the credit crunch.

The Government currently has a stake of 70.34 per cent in Royal Bank of Scotland and 43.44 per cent in Lloyds. That gives ministers the whip hand over both banks. They are expected to take up the taxpayers' "rights" when Lloyds launches its share issue to maintain the size of its investment.

Obviously doesn't wanna talk about it .... funny that.

From my weekly page "UPS"...........


Master RSI - 26 Oct'09 - 14:25 - 71 of 148 edit
Just in case you have not noticed, the Market is on a funny mood / shape, for the last couple days and the MMs are playing with it at the same time


The market has continued with the same mood since
For the last few years OCTOBER has been a month of disaster consequences for the stock market, the more famous one was 1987.
This Year was OK till now, but it seems it was left for the last week of the month, when normally it was around the 3er week.

Ah I see ... it's the MM's fault LLOY's are falling.

Yeah right !

Looking at things objectively ,this week ought to have been foreseen as a bad one
80 years after the 29 crash

RSI,

Can you explain to me why the Support line of 87p is now a resistance Line.

Are your interpretations of the indicators based on a lot hope and self deception particularly about your own ability to foresee the future?