Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

So says DT who clearly is getting worried.
"Donald Tusk
@eucopresident
I've been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted #Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely."

Tusk will look a plonker if the Irish will not build a border - what will the EU do then?

Desperate to keep the UK in stating:
"I know that still a very great number of people in the UK, and on the continent, as well as in Ireland, wish for a reversal of this decision. I have always been with you, with all my heart.

"But the facts are unmistakable. At the moment, the pro-Brexit stance of the UK prime minister, and the Leader of the Opposition, rules out this question.

"Today, there is no political force and no effective leadership for Remain. I say this without satisfaction, but you can't argue with the facts."

But coming to the facts of the matter that the people will not be pushed around by Tusk and Co.

And there was I agreeing with the Stan and Oliver that the expensive fiddlers should rot in hell. No pleasing some sigh.

PS when is the informal referendum Stan?

So says DT who clearly is getting worried.
"Donald Tusk
@eucopresident
I've been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted #Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely."



That to me is a fair summation of the political shenanigans initiated by Cameron and Osborne and continued by the most inept government in modern time.

Wait for Theresa to come back clutching in her hand a bit of in her hand and bleating "peace in our time" for the tory party".

Could be worse , could come back clutching that straw you and Stan are clinging onto.

Tusk can see his 39 billion slipping away , he's getting worried and so he should.

"Carry it out Safely"?

We alll know what happend to Chamberlain when he came back waving that piece of paper - and against all odds the UK then had a leader that took charge and went to war and won against all the odds.

I guess nothing will change but this time around it is The Economic Wars with no blood letting.

From Fred's rag

Concerns over the health of the German economy are mounting this morning, after Europe’s largest economy suffered another big fall in manufacturing orders.

Germany factory orders plunged by 1.6% in December, new figures released this morning show, due to weak demand from overseas.

That’s much worse than the 0.3% rise which economists had expected, and follows a 0.2% decline in November.

I hope the Guardian figures are correct, hate to have to apologise to Stan again

CT.

Then the UK had the "support of the empire".

Also, the USA saved the0 "bacon" of Great Britain when it "reluctantly" entered the WW2.

George,

Have a look at the projections for the UK if we leave the EU. (A soft Brexit may be gentler and may be possible, but the relationships with Europe will be very little different from what it is now, except the UK will be waiting at the table with little or no influence on the menu.)

(As I intimated back in 2016.)

Fred post 12282

Projections by those highly qualified to do so have to date been way off the mark, why would they be correct now?

That's why a soft Brexit is not good enough, if TM can get the so called Backstop sorted then that should be better than 'No Deal' and also 'Soft Brexit' thus to some extent pleasing both Remainers and Leavers.

I do recall that you had said as much in 2016, you also wanted the UK to change the EU from within but this was shown to be futile when DC asked for diddley squat and returned with diddley squat

Some more from The Guardian.

Deutsche Bank: Germany is drifting towards recession
Today’s grim factory orders data come just hours after Deutsche Bank warned that Germany is probably heading for recession.

In a new report, Deutsche economists wrote:

“The start of the German economy into 2019 has been a major disappointment so far.
“The development of several key cyclical indicators is telling us that the German economy is drifting towards recession right now.”

Fred, Projections cooked up by whom?

Just like Mark Carney telling everyone before voting for Brexit that it would be a disaster, and gloating about doom and gloom to try to get what the Remainers wanted, with even th US President being joined up.

Now Trump is joined up to the other camp and will put the UK at the front of the pack and do a trade deal, while the rest of the EU falls apart with no UK money to support their spending.

I sure would put my trust in Trump!

He's no worse than that clown in charge of the EU. He'll find out what hell on earth is like when Merkel gets hold of him.

I`ll take you at your word Fred and delighted to hear that you now sure would put your trust in Trump. :-)
If he can make the women from all sides clap during his SOTU address, then little wonder that he has you on side now.

"Fred1new - 06 Feb 2019 16:13 - 12286 of 12287
I sure would put my trust in Trump!"

Well said Donny lad, give erm some welly I say.

Lol , all of EU are distancing themselves from Tusks lunatic ranting but you stand by him.

Well done Stan.

Reminds me of a Lion annual album, I think 1964 : in the words of Hanibal : his tanks had Tusks !.....(sigh)...a film should be made of him.....almost conquered Rome.....

“I've been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted #Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely.”

Some of the nonsense spoken about the above is quite frankly embarrassing to listen too, a storm in a tea cup.