will it ever recover to the 38p i paid for them??

Its a question of how fast new orders come in and create revenue. However they do have orders to be delivered so the cash they have looks good for a while, but you cant run a company on thin air. They have the production facility and the product and are reportedly in discussions with a lot of the top air companies which they believe will bring the required revenue in 2005.I was dissaponted at the share price drop on their results. They had reported the three orders they had and it was known they had low 84000 T/O for 2003. So no surprises as they are really in a start up position.Its wait and see time i guess

alsolutely. they have been in talks with "25" ailines for 18 months with no traction. i agree that once this is adopted the shares will explode but realistically how long will this take.
what i really don't understand is that the FAA has approved the product, there are real cost savings in weight (and therefore fuel costs), and maintenace charges will go through the floor. is it really a gift horse or a niche donkey? i am sceptical because it is a no brainer product for airlines yet they are really taking their time putting the orders in.

I agree, but here we go .............have to sit ,wait and watch. However if it does get accepted by say BA!One major airline would transform the position.It just does not sound that unlikely. Why have Virgin bought soem? surely it will become the standard for them and its a case of winning the others over.

The product as a concept is a good one. It performs well, it has real cost savings to the airline industry in terms of all the reasons given above (weight, strength, repair costs)........ and fuel savings, especially at the moment. I think, therein lies the problem, albeit a short term one (in my view)Capital expenditure at the moment is a delicate subject with airlines. Many throughout the world are having a torrid time of it (excepting your SIA's and Emirates etc) The airline doesn't just buy 20 or 30 to carry round. So that they can get turned around and meet ATC control restrictions, schedules and passenger requirements, they have to station enough of the containers to meet the demand for the routes they fly. If PIA go to Manchester 17 times a week, they need 8 for each rotation, possibly 3 times a day ! Then allow another 2 for unserviceabilities. That's 26......... for 1 city. Start mixing aircraft types up...... the numbers become very big. How many destinations do PIA go to ? 44 at the latest count ! Woah..... big bucks.
What I see happening is a gradual uptake of ULD's by the majors as their existing containers become damaged/unusable/too expensive to repair. Unfortunately, that is gonna take a while and during that time we have to sit it out and watch as the coffers grow steadily.
What you also have to remember is that not all aircraft use ULD's. Take a 757.... they are very rarely used as bags are loaded into the cargo compartments using a good old-fashioned inclined travelator, with a couple of guys inside the hold and a couple outside. It is all then secured with a big net. (Loosely speaking)
How could it be a more rapid success ? I think the only way would have been for them to be explosion proof. Unfortunately, that's not how they were designed, it's too prohibitively expensive, and it shouldn't be the last line of defence for bomb protection !!

I'm in with them, but they're tucked away under my mattress.

ULD population..... 65,000 Time scale, assuming everyone wants them.... 15 years !! ish

I think you have missed one other point. I read is that they have a weight advantage over other containers which makes the attractive to the airlines as well.If you look at the number of new planes taking to the sky I would have thought there was an opportunity for a faster uptake than you suggest, but perhaps i am being over optomistic. Anyway , like you i also have them "tucked away"

Hi

I covered weight above along with strength and repair costs.... And actually, it's easier to introduce this type of "modification" to a new aircraft than retrospectively. This is because weight and balance figures are worked out for different configurations of ULD position along with the basic weight of the aircraft and crew complement. This information is then produced in the loading manuals and entered onto the centralised loadsheet computers. So........ changing the data for existing aircraft is actually more difficlut and time consuming than starting with the correct data, with a new aircraft. having said that, once it's done, it's done.

As for new aircraft....... Mr Boeing has one of the lowest delivery schedules it's ever had this year with a forecast to increase slowly with the introduction of the 7E7 over the next few years, but even then, the 7E7 may not have ULD's as it's a replacement for the 757 but with better performance and range. Mr Airbus, still produces a fair number, but it's hardly 50 a day is it ?

Am i talking myself out of this one.......... Nah, It'll make a few bob I think

I think its strength is that it does not have to win over a massive number of airlines to make money and as with its refrigerated units they will hopefully pick up "custom "requirements from customers for variations in design which usually make a much higher margin than the standard product.Hey , i think we agree , i possibly think its a bit sexier ? If they get an order from BA it could prove a turning point(IMO)

I hope it does get moving quick i've got 38000 of them now after adding some more at 16p, obviously I believe in this share.

I got into this (mess) at 30p, an increase would be good. I'm not as optmistic, there seem to still be a lot of problems. I've still heard nothing about the manufacturing side - can they be made in quantity? As far as I know autoclaves (I think thats the right term) are not exactly ten a penny, especially at the size needed! Are there any results from the tests donw so far? Buying more at this level to get out of a hole still makes me veyr nervous, they've shown no signs of lifefor ages now even with drips of (potentially) good information.

Sorry if I sound a bit cynical - anyone more cheerful?

I got in at at the same level as you and only the other day bought some more at 16p that was after it was announced that George Robinson had bought 7.33% of the company after meeting the directors,yesterday it was announced that Watermark had now got 4.83% of the company.
G Robinson apparently is well known for his astute business dealing so i concluded that if it was good enough for him then it was good enough for me(I hope) also Watermark are pretty much on the ball and i guess must feel it is a good proposition.

cavman2
Do you know any other things that George Robinson has been involved in? I also believe this will snowball when it gets started, but sometimes despair at how long it seems to be taking(a bit like PDX in this respect). I bought in at 33p or thereabouts.

Watermark are only interested in this because they were issued them as part of a deal to stop "litigation distractions" They were originally issued just under 7 million shares, gratis, and a lump sum of cash, and the announcement yesterday tells us that they've sold the balnce, which is 2.1 million shares. You're going to have to be in this longer term to reep the rewards... As I said, mine are under my mattress !

i would be interested if anyone knows more about this George Robinson...any clues?

George Robinson, aged 46. Mr Robinson is a partner in Sloan Robinson, a UK based
investment management company which he co-founded in 1993. Mr Robinson was
previously Research Director of WI Carr (Far East) Limited, specialising in
Asian equities. Mr Robinson has been a shareholder of Finelot since shortly
after it was founded and has known Mr Dattels since that time. Mr Robinson
currently owns 1,663,000 Ordinary Shares, representing 6.67% of the current
issued share capital. He does not have a significant holding in any other UK
public companies. Mr Robinson is also a shareholder in two Canadian mining
companies in which Mr Dattels has been a significant investor."

Proptrade got this from another BB hope it supplies some answers to your question.

absolutely. i should have known, I used to deal with Sloan Robinson on a regular basis when i was trading in Asia. They are very sharp and when they commit they do so after intense due diligence. i know this is a private holding but still bodes well. i might buy some next week.

most appreciated cavman2.

Thanks cavman2. Looks promising.

I've just got some figures from a buddy of mine regarding the price differential between the new and old ULD's.

The old AKE's are approximately 500, the new ones are 1300 and the weight difference is 10kg's. It all comes down to capital expenditure again..... IMHO. However comma New deliveries should hopefull go with the new ULD's and when they're knackered, I would like to think that they will be replaced with Aerobox units. Saying that..... my airline buddy researched them and his company still went for the Nordisk ones. Why..... capital outlay !!

Time to top up ??

shedjock, I find your comments really worrying .If the figures are correct I can not see any market for these. From an ROCE perspective they would be negative and never repay the investment.It poses the question why have Virgin or anyone else bought any?We could do with a response from Aerobex. I would have to suggest that perhaps the price differences are not 100% accurate. If they are, their only market place would be for any special/custom design demands? Thanks for thr post and would be interestd if you hear anything else

Does anyone remember when the factory was due to be up and running or if it already is? If it is open what are they doing with it as have not heard of any sales requiring production.If the sales don't justify this outlay we are really going to get hammered on next results. Anyone know when they are? Thanks for your insight shedjock and like you willfagg am worried.

factory was due to open September raisng capability about ten fold