Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Good one jimmy :-)

much interesting happening today, and it's not linked to something the queen may have said in private some 5 years ago, and which protocol demands is never made public .....

===============

further attempted stimulus of eurozone
following MD's speech, the markets got out the champagne and then realised it was sour lager

MD's actions highlighted not only the dire state of the eurozone economies, but indirectly, also those worldwide

reverting to the referendum conundrum .....
leaving aside the worldwide political and economic turmoil that is a written in the event of an "out" vote, the question is then whether or not uk would be in a stronger or weaker negotiating position vis a vis the eurozone

personally (unlike stan i'm happy to give a view!), i'm not sure but it could certainly take 2/3 years and more before anything is ironed out, even where all parties actually want a resolution

much more importantly (imo), i think that if uk leaves, there will be huge pressure on eu parliament to reform drastically if the eurozone is not to implode

major reform is of course what uk has always wanted, but while inside, it really is a herculean task as there is no overall will do so

unfortunately, leaving makes uk something of a sacrificial lamb, but that may be a necessary price

Not heard the remain brigade commenting on the strengthening of the pound over the last couple of days...But that would'nt fit their agenda.

Sacrificial lamb ? i think it may be the other way round a couple of years down the road .
I think it will be Europe in trouble.They had their chance but didn't want to reform ,the EEC was not what the EU is today.

uk will be the sacrificial lamb insofar as we won't have any say

in the meantime, uk leaving will have caused a tumultuous worldwide upheaval with some pretty dire consequences that can't even be guessed at - not even by stan or fred!

We don't do guessing.. guessing's for wimps.

ah, so you only do being wise after the event - except you're not very good at that either

It was a mostly a well reasoned post by cynic(138).

jimmy b agree, but the EU is now to far down their ideological project path for them to see reason...It would definitely be a huge shock to their system if its a LEAVE vote, and can't come soon enough.

Speak for yourself Alf.

gosh; i blush
not used to receiving compliments, but i thank you

not sure what, if anything you disagree with in my argument

"gosh; i blush
not used to receiving compliments, but i thank you".. I wonder why -):

''uk will be the sacrificial lamb insofar as we won't have any say''

The UK have a say but nobody listens ----- 0 from 72 is the UK score on 'say'

The stay in group is still ahead.

Euro boost apparently.....it won't have any effect I bet....there are too many taxes in Europe now and that includes the UK......if governments want economies to prosper : they have to cut taxes that encourage people to work !......

Same old right wing rhetoric, if you want people to work then you put the wages and conditions up.

Same old left wing rhetoric, put up wages but don't ask where the money is coming from.

If it's all right for people at the top to claim they need an incentive then why not all within the organisation and those not working? Nothing to do with left at all.

Many businesses are run on the basis of paying the lowest wages possible. There is not much that can be done about it, especially if the job is unskilled.

Exactly, low wage Rip-off Britain set up by your "Con" artists in the 80's maintained by Tory Blair in the 90's and so on, and yes there is a lot that we can do about it.