this important referendum is nearly upon us and i thought it would be interesting explore the views held by this BB

after much thought, i have decided to vote against AV
i do not dispute that "first past post the post" is in some ways unfair - so is life and golf! - but i am far from convinced that AV is intrinsically much better

i would rather have a stronger gov't of some hue than a weak coalition or mps (and parties) who have felt obliged to trim their sails to offend the least number and thus gain a few more secondary votes

full-blown PR is at least "fair", but even then, there are many examples of horribly weak and unstable gov'ts, which is also pretty disastrous

finally, and of greatest concern, i suspect the turnout for this referendum will be +/-35% at best and probably a lot lower in many parts of the country
it follows that those who vote in this will be (relative) "activists" for lack of a better word, for the run-of-the-mill voter will find the whole thing too complicated and voting on it all, too much of a fag
thus, if there is a change in our voting system, then it is very likely to have been pushed through by <20% of the electorate - is that fair?

Vince Cable has attacked the Lib Dems' Tory coalition partners as "ruthless, calculating and very tribal" but insisted the coalition would continue.

I hope he is right. It is what we need at the moment.

It would seems a very reasonable assessment.

Tribal often means primitive in search of leadership and obeying their "chronological" elders.

The present cabinet fits the bill nicely.

How old is Ashcroft?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384465/Worse-Michael-Foot-Ed-Miliband-faces-calls-change-polls-promise-turns-nightmare.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Worse than Michael Foot! Ed Miliband faces calls for change after polls promise turns to nightmare

Ed Miliband is facing calls to change his strategy after a dismal result in the local elections that was worse than that achieved by Michael Foot.

Labour won more than 800 extra council seats but recorded its worst performance in Scotland for 80 years and failed to connect with key swing voters in Southern England.
Senior colleagues had said Mr Miliband needed to win 40 per cent of the votes, but he fell well short.

With four in ten votes counted, Labour had won just 37 per cent.
Several members of the Shadow Cabinet are now expected to tell the Labour leader he needs to craft a more coherent message on the economy and do more to take on the Tories if he is to have any chance of securing power.

His performance compared unfavourably with Mr Foot, who picked up 988 seats in 1981 when Margaret Thatchers government was making unpopular spending cuts similar to those introduced by David Cameron.

Mr Foot secured 41 per cent of the vote that year but was heavily defeated in the 1983 general election

I see the tories story in Scotland is one of success.

How many seats did Labour pick up overall.

I await with interest the next round especially after the the economy crashes and unemployment soars.

The world thinks Georgie boy's economy that they are flogging of Stirling.

How many crows make a false dawn.

Thank god for Alex and the SNP- full autonomy to Sctland will save England 24 bn a year in handouts.

Get that vote out Alex.

well glad to see common sense prevailed and the no vote won

and to anyone considering voting for the lib dems - apart from a myriad of stupid policies dont forget they would open the immigration flood gates which as labour were doing will finish off this country once and fall - i have nothing personal against immigrants but a lot of them come here and take the piss, additionally uk is only a small country, infrastructure can not take anymore, we are skint thanks to labour, they have been taken the majority of jobs et cetera

and labour - what useless hypocrites - they run the country in to the ground living on credit - giving uk money to countries that use it incorrectly or who are better off than the uk e.g. china - labour and those 2 idiots crazy nut blair and brown the imbecile have ruined the uk

brown mr prudent - thats a laff if it wasnt so sad!!!! LOL! ps dont ask him to sell any gold you may have spare - what a twot he is!

i could go on and on about labour - but i can not think of one thing they did that was a success and that they actually carried out correct due dilligence before implementing anything - idiots

sorry the typos - in a hurry just now

The 10 local authorities which voted YES were Lambeth, Southwark, Islington, Camden, Haringey and Hackney in London along with Oxford, Cambridge, Glasgow Kelvin and Edinburgh Central.

430 NO AND 10 YES

take a look and read about ealing hospital . immigrants are destoying the foundations of the uk . the planet is being destoyed faster than people think.breeding out of control STOP THE BENEFITS FOR HAVING KIDS

Tanker,

It does seem a pity that some parents were allowed to breed.

I have a "feeling" that when the Scots feel the consequences of Georgie's economic policies then Salmond may have a walk over in a referendum on further devolution.

But of course it would mean closer relationship with the EU where the Scots are readily acceptable


Cameron already has his eyes bulging at the thought.

I wonder if Wales will move in the same direction.

Forgot. I now realise what Cameron meant by devolution of power to the local control and administration.


How many more cock ups is he going to be responsible for.

fred - i am getting so bored with 99% of your posts that i am sorely tempted to squelch you, where i am afraid you will be on your own, for it is not a function i ever use

C'est la vie!

Cynic.

I found out when I was a young boy, that often those who liked "handing it out" didn't have the "stomach to take it", and often cried "foul play" when the game got rough!

The Labour Party are doomed at present. Ed Millipede is very unpopular with the country in general and his MPs even more so and unelectable.

The Labour Party is broke again. The Conservatives should walk any election during the next year or so. In fact as time goes on they should get a bigger and bigger majority. There have been several suggestion today of an autumn election called by Cameron.

fred - not as many cock ups as labour are responsible for - that would be impossible - europe used & abused labour, so called human rights - what a mess, prisoners claimimg thousands of pounds for falling out of bed! prisoners living in luxury etc, labours stupid targets ruined hospitals with management teams, schooling - oh i know need to hit our targets so lets make the exams easier and lower the goal posts, money wasted not by the million but billion, sickness benefit, single mother benefit, immigrants benefit (note the skewed figures of immigration from labour from the minority they knew and admitted weree here were based on adults coming in only and does not include their brood of kids - and boy do they breed 5 + children a norm), plastic police, police spending more time on red tape and i am not even started yet - cameron has a long way to go to emulate that pile of shat and considering the shat labour left in their wake at least he is getting things done - has to or uk plc is finished eg cameron is tackling the work shy who claim sickness - many have now signed off or been removed - it should only go to the real sick people not the ones that labour did not tackle because they were scared of losing thier votes et cetera et cetera!

oh and bLIAR, friends with the likes of gadaffi!

fred - it's just that i find nearly all your posts thoroughly tiresome and, apart from inside your own head, all too often without proper logic, let alone common sense .... in fact, i think much of what you post is merely for effect and to be contentious with neither cause nor true justification .... if that's what rocks your boat, then good luck to you i guess, though i for one just feel sorry for you and remain very thankful that we do not move in the same circles

Vince Cable's attack on the ruthless Tories is a bit pathetic. The Liberals are playing in the senior playground for once, but they don't seem to know the rules. They are complaining to the teacher that the big boys are too rough for them.

The answer may be to go back to the junior playground where nurse is handy to put some ointment on those grazed knees and give them a comforting hug. It is much safer pretending you want power and knowing you won't get it.

I saw an interview with Max Hasting a few weeks ago where he said, "The Liberals always were the Silly Party and they still are".

Cameron offered them any date they wanted for the AV referendum. They chose the end of the first year when you could bet that they would be unpopular. Had they waited for a couple more years when the economy might have been a lot better then they could have risen in popularity and the public would have wanted to give them a chance. The public knew very well that the Liberals were the only real gainer in a change in the voting system, which is why they voted NO out of spite.

As it is, the Liberal voters feel betrayed, not realising that in a coalition you can't have all your wishes come true.

fred. you are a fool and i expect you are a small time player. so go and play with the children which is about your score