Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

For anyone who is interested http://www.moneyam.com/InvestorsRoom/posts.php?tid=19699#lastread

Construction professionals say.... In

Check out Building .co.UK poll

63% In
21% Out.

Construction industry says ......In.

Polls mean nothing will we will only know on the 24th .

Not unless they agree with you?

8-) LOL

Listen to your leader.

Must have made the speech with a few in mind.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36284234


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum

Major attacks senior Vote Leave Tories

Sir John Major accuses Michael Gove, Boris Johnson and Iain Duncan Smith of exaggerating their arguments to leave the EU - but Vote Leave says he is "wrong".

Gove, Johnson and Duncan Smith are overstating EU exit case - Major



Well, well, well.

Surprised Fred?

Your best agreeing with will I am or he will scream and shout and throw things , start throwing insults at you and everyone if he don't get his way , boo hoo .

John Major is very much worth listening to
he is very interesting and intelligent and does not rave
no one says that you then need to agree with his view

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqDtL3k

The problem with these latter day éminences grises, such as Major and Bruin, is while they are very good at giving support and loyalty to the EU master class, they are hardly noted for loyalty and support to their own leadership that brought their respective parties to power. Nor were they effective when they managed to get into power. Major was responsible for the largest Tory electoral defeat in 165 years while nobody needs reminding of Bruin. He gave us Ed of the stone and Jeremy de Islington.

If you watch the Youtube video , it's a no brainer that we should vote OUT

Friends of Dumbo, Vicky and few others.

I don't understand for whatever reason that these eminent people seem to just see the upside , an ever diminishing upside at that and for all their supposed experience can't see it's one hell of a mess and will take us down with it .

Well with all their supposed experience they took their parties down, themselves with it, and left them in an almighty mess, so what's new now?

Following my post on the subject, I still feel staying in is tantamount to staying on a burning ship, half way sank into the water with imminent death awaiting all on board except for the captain and the crew. As a general rule whatever the government line is or whatever David Cameron insists that you do – do the opposite. There is absolutely no benefit in staying in EU, Britain was deceived into going in … in the first place by it’s leaders, just like all the other nations who joined the union. Now, the opposition to staying in the EU say that we lose our democracy if we stay in. We do not have a democracy in or out, Cameron increased our borrowing by 170 Billion to help bomb Syria to dust whilst trying to cut 40 billion from our national health service. The austerity will continue in or out of EU and we will never pay back our debt to the central bankers (we are not supposed to) – The macro game plan is perpetual debt for every country in The World. Why Even pay our debt I ask? … We are never going to pay it back … After all, we are paying interest on money that never even existed in the first place. My call is that Britain will indeed stay in the EU – if they can get our vote in their desired direction then fine, if we choose to vote exit … my hunch is that they will fix the vote in the favour of staying in . YES ! They will fix the vote count. Andre Minassian

I'm sure there will be some sort of manipulation , if you look at reports from Brussels there is no let up on their programme going forward , which suggests to me they are pretty dam sure we will stay come hell or high water . Personally i thought they would have toned down their assault on their objectives if it's so important to them we stay . The only thing can help may be apathy on the remain side , and all out determination on the outers side on the day . I feel a lot of protesting after .

If the €urobore song contest is anything to go by, the result is already in, they just haven't bothered to tell the public.

So while I’m not starting, not firing the starting gun on the referendum campaign, what I have done in recent weeks is just to debunk some of the duff arguments that people put around. So last week I talked about what I think is a very duff argument put about by the Out campaign, which is that it would be easy for Britain to leave Europe and simply sign up to a deal like Norway. I think that would be a bad idea. When you look at the detail of the deal that Norway has, it is not a good deal. They pay more per head into the European Union than we do, they take more migration than we do, and yet they don’t have a seat at the table to determine what the rules are. So that is a bad deal. So the people who definitely want to leave, they need to come up with a better argument than ‘let’s have a position like Norway’.

So today I also want to debunk an argument that is sometimes put around by those who say ‘stay in Europe come what may’. Some people seem to say that really Britain couldn’t survive, couldn’t do okay outside the European Union. I don’t think that is true. Let’s be frank, Britain is an amazing country. We have got the fifth biggest economy in the world. We are a top ten manufacturer, growing steadily strong financial services. The world wants to come and do business here, look at the record of inward investment. Look at the leaders beating a path to our door to come to see what’s happening with this great country’s economy.

The argument isn’t whether Britain could survive outside the EU; of course it could. The argument is, ‘How are we going to be best off?’ That is the argument that I think we are going to be making together after this successful negotiation. When it comes to the crucial issues, our prosperity, our national security, of course we could try to look after those things outside the EU, but how do we make ourselves more prosperous and more secure? That’s what the argument should be about, and that’s what I will throw myself into once I’ve completed this negotiation.

And I hope that British business will back me in this negotiation because, frankly, the status quo isn’t good enough for Britain. We need to fix these challenges, fix these problems. That’s what the negotiation is about and then we can throw ourselves headlong into keeping Britain in a reformed Europe. But as we do so, no duff arguments, no pretending that Britain couldn’t survive outside the EU, of course we could. The fifth largest economy in the world, the great economy that is getting stronger and better.

So let’s argue from that position of strength. All campaigns should be about how do we make Britain more prosperous, more secure. It was… [Inaudible]. I don’t have any emotional attachment to the institutions of the European Union, but I have a very strong emotional and practical attachment to asking the simple question for Britain, how do we have more influence to the world, how do we have more prosperity, how do we have more jobs, how do we do the best for the country we love? To me, that’s what it’s all about. Thank you.


The above was an extract from a speech made by David Cameron at the CBI's annual conference on 9th November 2015. (full speech on u tube)

Memory Loss Davey, how much did it take to change your mind...

You can always rely on the eurovision song contest to make a political
point, in this case Ukraine winning it with a political morose song,
which has an haunting rendition of the deportation of the Tartars from Crimea by Josef Stallin.

It all fits in with the EU's desire to have the Ukraine join up.

I actually thought the UK would either win or get into the top three,
not because the song was any good(but neither was the Ukraine entry,
and see what they achieved) but to make it appear that the eu
was all lovey dovey with the UK.