Why are we again at 10.5p bid?

It doesn't add up...

Good Results + Strong buying pre results + Christmas online buying soon = Price drop

Then again some companies that have debt for equity hanging in the balance, poor results and bankruptcy around the corner and they go up!

Why sell now at a loss?

Wont that be a kick in the teeth when we see 13.5p 14p again!

Best of luck all.

I have seen this on level 11 but um unsure of the meaning. Maybe one of the pros can help

Yes another BIG BUY.

Put that into the context of what we have read in that article I pasted about Market Manipulation and it all starts to become clear.

The MM has run the price into the ground. The small amateur investors through fear, lack of patience, greed (they think they will make more elsewhere) or boredom have or are selling.

Meanwhile the smart money (inside money) hoovers up all the cheap shares and builds up a big stake.

Then in due course the releasing of good news starts. The rumours. The positive sentiment. A nice update from the company. And so the price rockets. The MM starts walking it back up. Everyone who isn't in RTD thinks hang on! I'm missing out! Look whats happening over there, mine haven't moved for ages. So they dump their YOO shares or whatever and leap onto the RTD bandwagon and off it all goes again.

Then just before and during the peak the smart money starts to sell.

And so it goes on. And why? Because people love it! They love to see a share which gains 10% or 20% in a few days. It's a way to catch peoples interest in small cap companies. But it can't keep going up, so sometimes it has to go down. People get burnt and lose money but to those who don't it's all part of the fun. And memories are short and greed is king, so when the price goes up we all make the same mistake again and again.

So what is our battle against this terrible manipulation? How can we know what's going on in MM land?

Well one good way is to study the trades. When we can see what we can see now with RTD - we know something's afoot. Because in amongst all the small sellers are some BIG buyers. Buying up nearly every day. Quietly, without many even realising.

The bad news for the MM is that he is obliged to show what trades have gone through on all stocks each day. The good news is that he doesn't have to tell us if they were buys or sells. We have to try and work that out ourselves from studying the prices.

Of course the MM have ways of trying to trick us. Often they will try and sneak the transaction through at the end of the day hoping we don't notice. Or cleverly manipulate the mid price so a buy goes through as an unknown. Or move the price throughout the day so a buy looks like a sell. All very crafty. And it works. Most look at their screens and think - look at all those sells and those unknowns - I'm out!!

So this is my conclusion with RTD. I think this is the quiet before the storm. With the benefit of hindsight I am of course annoyed with myself for not selling up at 13p. Then I could have been buying now (along with the smart money) intead of holding waiting for a recovery.

But something I won't be is a victim of this game and sell at a loss. That would then be two mistakes. I shall wait until the game starts over again and all I will have lost is time.

Thank you for your very true and logical explanations/comments.

If this is true, which I have no doubt it is, then we are looking forward to a very nice rise for those that didn't break loose!

Best of luck all.

I just wish something would happen to RTD soon as its driving me mad.

I am in long term however but when you are on a loss theoretically, it still doesn't help.

Thanks to all guys above for great bits of info.

I am new to the markets so please ignore my ignorance of this but I was most amazed by guysands post of 16 Oct'03 - 12:05, however, it occured to me that
isn't it theoretically possible that we are all part of market manipulation in one way or another?

My brokers T&C's state that they may, without prior reference to me, combine my request - whether buy or sell - with other orders for execution. Now, if 50 average Joes place a buy order for 10,000 a piece surely the broker (MM) has a duty to buy at the best possible price and fill that order (500,000) and maybe shake a few trees to get them?

Again, apologies for my ignorance if this is not how its done...

In the example of RTD there is little chance of there being 50 orders in a day, let alone all from one source. So although your broker reserves the right to clump buys and sells together, in the case of RTD it wouldn't happen.

These days there are many ways to buy stock and quite often people get a quote there and then (be it on the phone or internet) and their individual order is processed immediately. But if you said to your broker - buy me x amount of shares in RTD today at the best price you can then he could put it in with another similar order from someone else.

As far as all being part of market manipulation - yes we often are.

For one simple reason - we all act in the same way.

Most of us are more likey to buy shares that are rising and sell when they are falling, when in fact we should be doing the reverse - buying on red days and selling on blue. Because MM's know that most people act in the same way it is easy for them to create rallys in share price movement and hence a lot of business for themselves.

Guy have a look at the trades for GXN approx 17million shares bought after tick up all showing as sells.

the offer became the bid then the trades went through.

I'm assuming they're buys of course people on the BB's with L2 are certain they are.

all happened after I read the article you posted. As soon as the price ticked up I knew some big trades were coming although I thought they'd be at mid.


R

this is becoming a very interesting and informative forum, you guys have made me want to hold on to my RTD stocks just to see what is going to happen next.

at last. a decent gain so far today.

if we get some good news just prior to crimbo, then this will rocket

by the way, Price fixing is highly ilegal, contact the LSE and ask for a guy called Phillip Cain, he will confirm what i am saying, and if my memory serves me well, CS was all over the news papers for similar things. The difficult thing is making it stick.

ScotInvestor

You said a decent gain so far today. Am I missing something. I am looking on ShareScope and so far today I have seen the price drop from 10p to 9.75p. Are you reffering to mid price?

Javid

Nitefly

Is there any way we can find out if the 1,000,000 trade was a buy or a sell?

It was a buy.

e-Bay's Q3 results statement yesterday "along with a strong performance by PayPal"

PayPal relies on RTD for its credit risk management. PayPal is RTDs largest customer. PayPal's strong performance reflects very well on RTD.

Probably the most important factor I have noticed over the last month, is the momentum in enthusiasm, this has now replaced the dreary doom & gloom (deramping in some cases) we were seeing on various forums. People are starting to sit up and pay attention to this GOLDEN opportunity and I expect there are a lot of investors just waiting for a little news, before they jump aboard. It makes absolute sense to hold. Rather than listen to our ramblings, all you need to do is research RTD and see the real potential for yourself? ... Just to remind you where RTD used to be, take a quick look at the chart: Ok so it's been in the doldrums for some time, but RTD is starting to show signs of a turnaround. They have made good progress in the first-half 2003 (see the upturn in the chart), winning a number of new contracts and going by a statement released recently, they expect to be making further announcements in the very near future. What the chart clearly demonstrates is the climb out, not very steep atm, but you never know when it might come, I want to make sure I'm there when it does. Another recent statement saw the group report its first interim pre-tax profit since its formation, maybe it wont be to far fetched to suggest they may even consider making acquisitions sooner rather than later (you never know). I think we will all be rewarded handsomely in the near future. No way am I parting with my rather large block, in fact I have only recently topped up with another 20K. I agree with guysands sentiment that it is better to hold & lose some time rather than money, wise words indeed. The next month or two should be very interesting, to say the least. Best of luck all! NF Click here to view RTD Quick Chart

Hey what about ZOO 1/2 my cash intended zoo :-( thought RTD better bet short term... this the company you guys keep...sory to be drag anchor...may be us next week... thanks for many good informative postings enjoy visiting this site ...wish I could post good news...for ever optomistic....have good weekend...douggie..big bro of haigh :-)).......

guysands

Will we get Q3 results?

dalrymp

next results are due on March 11th (full year)

martincoops

Surely we'll have an update before that????????

LETS HOPE IT ROCKS....UP.!