Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Camelot

one of the interesting factors here is that so long as Hamas continue to allow rocket attacks and border incursions they also continue to provide Israel with legal grounds for the blockade, and any other acts of war that Israel choses to wage.

If Hamas were to stop the rockets and incursions then Israel would have no choice but to lift the blockade.

G you lost your mobile phone?

Camelot.

Who murder civilians ?.... it is realy very simple.... who should stop murdering kids, babies, old men and women ...

Sorry for the cut and paste but lets look at it another way.

Facebook Meets the Flotilla
An old high school friend, who's taken great exception to a couple of my most recent Jerusalem Post columns, has been telling me of late on my Facebook page how out of touch with American Jewry I am. He let loose again today. Here's what he had to say:

Hey Danny....yet again a misguided Israeli political and military mission with regard to Gaza that American Jewry will be asked to stand by and support. All over the news Israel will be referred to as "the Jewish State" as worldwide condemnation will pour in. As a Jew I will be on the defensive despite the fact that I have no vote and no say in whatever the politicians in Israel decide. Again, you will no doubt ask for solidarity by Jewish folk worldwide and we will answer for Israeli decision-making. I love Israel as my religious base, but the policies do not reflect my peace loving values. I support Israel with bonds and donations and visits, but the thriving American Jewish experience is independent of it.

OK, there's a lot there, and most of it I won't respond to now. But this is one of those moments when I don't think we have the luxury of writing a column over days, printing it out and editing it, sleeping on it and editing it again. Too much is happening, and people are too hurting and too confused for something not to be said.

To be sure, there's much more that we don't know than we do. We'll learn a lot in the days and weeks to come. But we do know that this was a tragic day and an excruciatingly painful one in Israel. At the fruit market, and at the dry cleaners, I asked people working there how they were, and all I got was a sigh. And then, "Yom kasheh. A tough day. They're going to eat us alive."

They will, indeed, eat us alive. It's taken a full day for the Israeli government to say anything coherent at all, riots are breaking out in Israeli Arab towns, Israelis in Istanbul have been warned by the Foreign Ministry not to leave their hotel rooms, and the international community is raining down condemnation.

But I jump to conclusions very different than those of my high school friend, and I responded to him in language very close to this:

David - we couldn't disagree more strongly. Israel's actions were "misguided"? Let's take that first. Were there tragic outcomes? Obviously. But "misguided"? Gaza is under the malicious and cynical rule of a terror organization sworn on Israel's destruction, that is holding an Israeli soldier captive in contravention of all international treaties, and that oppresses its own population while even Palestinian witnesses there acknowledge that there is no food shortage. Given Hamas' military objectives, Israel would be crazy not to check what's going in. But Israel had already pledged to pass on any humanitarian goods after they were inspected, and told the boats the same thing. So, no, I don't think that the idea of stopping the boats was misguided.

What we know is that on five of the ships, the commandos (among them friends of our kids, by the way) boarded the boats, and there was no resistance and no fighting.

On one boat, however, the first soldiers to land on the boat were attacked with metal rods and knives. There's video of it. It's playing all over Israeli and all over the internet. In some cases, soldiers' weapons were stolen and used against them. One was stabbed, apparently in the abdomen. Another was tossed from a desk and trampled when he landed. There were a handful of commandos there, and 600 "peace activists." On Israeli news tonight, the soldiers on helicopters taking them to the hospital were interviewed. They descended the ropes, they said, planning to talk the "activists" into going to Ashdod. Their weapons were not in their hands, but strapped to their backs. "We went into war," one in his 30's said bitterly tonight, "and all we had were toys." They were beaten, trampled, shot (yes, there were bullet injuries) but only after forty minutes of combat did they resort to live five. They were going to get lynched if they didn't fight back, they said.

Was I there? No. Do I know what really happened? No. But do I trust these kids and their officers? Yes, I do.

As for "peace activists," David, how much do you know about the IHH? It's a terror support group, supported by Turkey (among others) and it was ent to provoke. If they just wanted the goods to get to Gaza, they could have agreed to transfer them to an Israeli ship, or to unload them in Ashdod, as the Navy personnel asked them to. But they didn't want that. They just wanted to break the blockade. Why? For food? Even a few Palestinian journalists with some guts are reporting that there's no humanitarian food crisis in Gaza. No, it wasn't about food. They want the blockade broken so that after that, non-humanitarian items (read weapons) could brought in. Why should Israel allow that? So that they can be better armed the next time we have to send our kids into Gaza?

As for "being on the defensive," you "will be on the defensive" only because you totally don't get it. For if you did get it, you wouldn't feel that way. There's only one country anywhere on the planet about which there's a conversation about whether it has a right to exist. Do you ever think about why that is? What, the fate of the Palestinians is worse than that of aborigines in Australia? Or people in the Congo, or Rwanda? Why all the attention on Israel? Do you really not get it? You think that New Zealand just coincidentally decided this week to make kosher slaughtering illegal? You think it's really about humanitarian commitments? Come on.

No, David, you really don't have to defend Israel. No one's asking you to. We know that it's too late to expect many Americans like you to assume we're right before you assume we're wrong. As we look out at Jews across the world, we're just assessing who gets Jewish history, and who's so thoroughly intellectually assimilated that they're actually embarrassed that that Jews don't have to continue to be victims. I'm horrified by what happened on the ship, and I'll be shocked if after all is in, we find that Israel made no mistakes. (This was pretty clearly an intelligence failure, at the very minimum, sending those soldiers into something for which they had not at all been prepared or armed.) But if that had been my kid on the ship, and he'd gone in to prevent the blockade from being broken, but had no intention of fighting, and had then been attacked, I'd want him to defend himself. No matter what. I'd want him to come home whole, because that's part of the new Jewish reality that this country is supposed to make possible.

The loss of life is tragic. So are the injuries to soldiers, including serious head wounds. But most tragic of all is that the world is so willing to be blinded to what's really going on here.

At the end of this excruciating day in Israel, at least given what I know at this moment, I'm saddened but not apologetic. I'm not surprised by most of the world's reactions. But I haven't lost sight of who provoked this, and why they did that. But you're a very smart guy. Why have you?

Camelot,

Take a risk and go to the two sites I posted earlier and compare the similarities..

At the moment Israel is an embarrassment to itself and America, and America is losing more and more of its credibility as in bends to internal party political pressures.

The does not mean I support many of the actions of Hamas, Hezbollah or Fatah. But I do understand some of the reasons for their "terrorism".

But the many of the past and recent actions of Israel have been against international law and humanitarian standards.

Israel, will not succeed in suppressing the Palestinians by force and will have to hope that by negotiation an acceptable settlement can be reached.





http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&rlz=1B3WZPB_enGB336GB336&q=polish+ghetto+photos&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=3WgFTJ2PFtGT4gbd2_DLDg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQsAQwAA

Make allowances for below, as it is journalistic and has propaganda influence.

But the photos are graphic and the majority are not set ups etc..


http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/gaza-horror-large-photo-gallery-of-gaza-massacre-by-israel/

Maritme law.
Worth a read.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Law/Legal+Issues+and+Rulings/Gaza_floti

PS.

I don't think that "Israel" should be wiped off the Map and considered the remark at the time to be very bad rhetoric with long term harmful effects

==============

The boats were subjected to an illegal attack in international waters.

Those on board seem to have little in the way of arms compared with the pirates who attacked them.

If I broke into an Israeli house, I am sure the majority of Israelis would attempt to defend their property.

The reasons for the Armada and the rockets and terrorism, is to draw world attention to the illegal acts of Israel, who at the moment are arrogantly disregarding the rights of the Palestinians, based on a mythical concept that "God gave them the land",

Both sides need to grow up and face the responsibilities to all the people of that area.

I hope that this confrontation does not lead to an expansion of the conflict.

Israel's judiciary response to the petitions. Note that the Israeli high court is genuinely independent of the government and has found against the government many times.

Please, anyone who still claims that Israel's actions were illegal, knock this document and its arguments down. It's a legal document, so try to stick to facts.


The State Attorney's Office earlier today (Tuesday), 1 June 2010, submitted, to the High Court of Justice, the State's response to two petitions regarding the Gaza flotilla. The response was submitted by State Attorney Moshe Lador and other senior officials. The main points of the reply are as follows:

1. The Gaza Strip is controlled by the Hamas terrorist organization, which has set as its goal, and has consistently and systematically worked towards its realization, to attack the citizens and residents of the State of Israel - mainly those residing in the cities and communities in the south of the country, in proximity to the Gaza Strip. Deliberate attacks on a country's civilian population are perpetrated mainly via rockets, and the Hamas terrorist organization's ability (as well as that of its parallel organizations), is based mainly on the infiltration of war materiel into the Gaza Strip by any means possible and by any channel at the organization's disposal.

2. One of the main routes by which weapons and ordnance have been infiltrated into the Gaza Strip up to now is tunnels dug under the border with Egypt into the area of the Strip. Against these, as it is known, the State of Israel has done its utmost to thwart their being used to transfer war materiel. In addition, as part of the struggle to block the smuggling of weapons, the State of Israel has imposed a naval blockade on the Gaza Strip. The blockade is not intended to harm residents of the Strip. It is designed to prevent direct and free access to the Gaza Strip, not via Israel, in order to thwart, minimize, block and hinder the Gaza Strip from becoming a giant arsenal for the terrorist organizations to use in deliberately targeting Israelis in the framework of murderous terrorist actions that have been perpetrated over the years. Free access to Gaza - were it to be allowed (and were it to become possible in the future) - would obviate any possibility whatsoever of preventing the realization of this unbearable scenario.

3. No state that wishes to survive could agree to put itself before such a reality. No rational state would knowingly close its eyes to such an outstanding strategic threat. Therefore, Israel decided not to remain indifferent to such a crude attempt to violate the naval blockade which was imposed in the framework of the security measures taken following Operation Cast Lead, and acted to interdict the flotilla, the true goal of which was "to break the blockade on the Gaza Strip" and to create a new and accessible route for the delivery of war materiel for terrorist purposes.

4. There is no doubt that if Israel had taken a nae approach regarding "clearing the sea route" towards the Gaza coast by the aforesaid flotilla, and if it had conceded on its determined enforcement of the naval blockade in this case, merely because the ships flew the "flag of peace", the State would have thereby allowed the creation of a new reality (which would have been impossible to halt), according to which any vessel, whatever its cargo (such as that of the Karine A, for example), would find its way - without oversight - to the coast of the Gaza terrorist authority, as long as it flew the "flag of peace" and on its decks were found the "spokespeople" of a "peace lobby" from somewhere in the world.

5. While the Gaza flotilla was publicly "marketed" as being for humanitarian purposes, the reality indicates a different goal. The organizers of the flotilla scorned Israel's efforts to prevent the vessels from reaching Gaza, via diplomatic dialogue, announcements in advance and declarations over the radio. The organizers of the flotilla similarly rejected Israel's offer to transfer the aid on board directly to Gaza via Israel, thereby attesting that their goal was to "break the blockade."

6. As is known, the violent "welcome" which the "peace activists" gave the IDF soldiers, who had been ordered to prevent the flotilla participants from violating the blockade in order to guard the State of Israel's most vital security interests, created a tangible danger to the soldiers who were compelled to defend themselves and take the necessary action to protect life and limb. The flotilla participants engaged in this severe violence despite their arrogance in calling themselves "peace activists." The lynching that they sought to perpetrate on IDF soldiers, which included - inter alia - attacks with knives, clubs iron bars, Molotov cocktails, the throwing of heavy objects and the throwing of a soldier from one of the decks, compelled the IDF soldiers to defend themselves and take the necessary action to protect life and limb. As a result, regrettably, nine flotilla participants were killed and people were injured, both flotilla participants and soldiers.

7. Thus may be seen the true, violent and provocative, nature of the flotilla, which bears no resemblance whatsoever to "humanitarian aid" to the Gaza Strip. Thus the claimants' veil of hypocrisy is lifted.

8. The IDF is a moral army and IDF soldiers are trained in the purity of arms and scrupulous upholding of human rights. However, the State of Israel and the security establishment will not neglect their duty to maintain the safety of citizens who have been under attack for many years by the terrorist organizations. These act continuously, diligently and deviously to build up vast stocks of war materiel - the hindering of which is sanctioned by international customary law - in order to deliberately shoot at Israeli communities.

The action was, therefore, legal:

The petition is without any factual or legal basis. Factually, the petition is riddled with crude and harsh distortions, baseless accusations and the tendentious defamation of the State, while using inflammatory language that ill befits this honorable Court. The foregoing alone justifies its outright dismissal.

Legally, the petition ignores central provisions of international law that permit the imposition of a naval blockade and the capture of vessels that are in violation, or are about to violate said blockade, and claims - without any basis in law - that these actions were carried out in the absence of authority. The State's actions were carried out according to law, both customary international law and the Entry into Israel Law. As for the petition's being directed at the detention of flotilla passengers who are not required for investigation regarding the events at issue, or for perpetrating severe violent offenses against IDF soldiers, there is full readiness to facilitate their immediate departure from the State of Israel. In any event, regarding the claim on the issue of detention under the Entry into Israel Law, there is an alternative remedy, in the form of judicial review of the orders under the Entry into Israel Law.

If Israel want Hamass to stop firing rockets into Israel then Israel has to change its policies. Stop building settlements illegally and remove the ones already built. Abide by UN resolutions - there are dozens of them. Stop the blockade of Gaza. At some point Israel will have to stop the blockade and arms, rockets will flood into Gaza. The question for Israel is why are Hamas firing rockets and not how to stop them. The policies of Israel are the cause. The militant action of Hamas and other Palestinian groups will not stop. It will carry on for generations until Israel negociate properly. Id anything the situation will get worse. Hamas are clearly bent on creating situations that will increasingly isilate Israel from the erst of the world.

Boycott Israeli Goods Campaign

Haystack - we get it. So far as you're concerned it's all Israel's fault; remove all settlements and lift the naval blockade, grant Gaza the freedom to arm itself with bigger and more powerful weapons and the problem's all solved - In your fantasy the rockets will then stop and Israel and Gaza will go down the pub for a pint together. And the best way to achieve this is for you to only buy tomatoes grown in Guernsey.

Meanwhile in the real world we're trying to move on to reasoned analysis and debate, and to gain an insight into where recent events are leading.

Your continued reposting of the same vacuous crap is pointless, boring and doesn't add anything to the debate.

I am more concerned at removing the land blockade. The flotilla was largely symbolic. I doubt that anyone expects Israel to lift the naval blockade. It is the blockade of the land crossings that does so much harm to the Gaza residents. It doesn't add anuthing to the debate when Israel just keeps building more illegal settlements on occupied land.

It is Israeli policies that are the root cause of the conflict. This is a conflict or war that Israel cannot win. The attitude of "if you hurt me then I will hurt you 100 times worse" is getting Israel nowhere and making Israel more isolated. I am not surprised that Gaza attacks Israel.

Many Palestinian citizens were injured on Wednesday when they tried to stop Israeli settlers backed by Israeli occupation forces (IOF) from burning their olive trees in two villages in Nablus district, local sources reported.

They said that Israeli settlers on Tuesday night and at dawn Wednesday burnt more than 200 dunums of farmland cultivated with fruitful olive trees and the villagers could not put off the fire due to the intensified presence of those settlers, who were supported by the IOF troops.

Israeli settlers almost daily attack Palestinian villages in Nablus district under the protection of the IOF soldiers targeting fruitful trees. They either burn or cut off those trees.

"Meanwhile in the real world we're trying to move on to reasoned analysis and debate, and to gain an insight into where recent events are leading."

No they are not. Israel is just trying to justify its piracy.

Israel is just trying to justify its piracy.

More slogan chanting from Mr Vacuous Crap.

Care to justify or backup the 'piracy' allegation? I've made it easy for you by posting up the legal position that demonstrates the legality of Israels actions - all you have to do is discredit any of the assumptions or any of the arguments that flow from the application of law to those assumptions. simples? Then you can promote yourself from gullible pontificating windbag to esteemed analyst. Obviously it would be unfair to present the likes of Fahel or Fred with such a challenge, but I'd expect you, Haystack, or you, Cynic, to at least have a go.

I can't really make it any easier for you.

Hays,

Don't wear your fingers out.

I agree with the majority of what you have written.

Israel is postponing what will eventually happen, ie, negotiate and they will have to pay for the restitution of the damage they have done by uprooting and destroying the property of the Palestinians.

(Similar to the Jewish claims against Germany, since 1945.)

Again, it may be reasonable for the Palestinian militants to call a "cease fire" for a 3 month period while attempts at meaningful negotiations take place.

Also, the Palestinians have to be realistic and drop "the wiping off the map Israel".

I think, the construction of the state in the manner it was done. was wrong, but is "fait accompli".

The decision of the Israeli courts are orrellevant in this. It is international law that matters, There are plenty of international lawyers who are on opposing sides regarding the legality of the action. The actual blockade is illegal and has been specified as such by the UN. Israel likes to quote the UN when it suits them. I have seen in several papers today, such as the Guardian for one, that the activists were beaten during interrogation by the commandos after the action was complete. Is this proportional? Just war criminals and pirates.

Arab Knesset member Hanin Zoughbi said that the Israeli navy started to fire at the passengers of the Turkish cruise ship Mavi Marmara before its commandos landed on the deck, denying Israels claims that its soldiers opened fire in self-defense.

Zoughbi told a news conference in Nazareth city on Tuesday that Israeli soldiers ignored its appeal for providing two of the wounded passengers with medical help and let them bleed to death.

She highlighted that despite the tough political life she is living in and her experience of the reality of the occupation, she did not expect that such a brutal attack could have happened, especially since the convoy was carrying humanitarian aid to the besieged Gaza people.

The lawmaker added that everyone aboard was expecting that the ships would only be intercepted and taken to Israeli ports and it did not come into their minds that Israel would use such military equipment and huge number of soldiers to attack them.

There were deaths within minutes. The aim was to create an atmosphere of terror. A person raised a white flag and there were enough indications that we did not want any confrontation, the lawmaker stressed.

For his part, lawyer Basim Mansour, who visited on Tuesday a number of Freedom Flotilla detainees, said that two women told him that the Israeli soldiers tied two of the passengers and threw them into the sea to die by drowning.

An Egyptian doctor, one of the participants in the convoy, also reported that the soldiers opened fire directly at the victims and refused to medically treat seriously-wounded cases leaving them to die.

Many Greek passengers, who were aboard Freedom Flotilla ships, confirmed on Tuesday after their release that the Israeli troops used live and rubber bullets, batons and stunt guns during their attack on the convoy.

Turkish activist Mutlu Teriyaki, who was aboard the ship having the name of Gaza, reported that he and his friends were able to see clearly Israeli troops firing randomly aboard Mavi Marmara ship.

In a related context, Dr. Ahmed Al-Rashidi, a professor of international law at the university of Cairo, called on the Palestinian government, the governments around the world, and human rights organizations to document the Israeli crime against the Freedom Flotilla convoy.

Dr. Rashidi also stated that Israel violated an important principle of the international humanitarian law related to the right of humanitarian assistance when it attacked the convoy, adding that articles 55 and 62 of the fourth Geneva convention stipulate that any occupying power must allow relief aid to reach the people under its occupation.

In a new development, the European campaign to end the siege said it managed to obtain the names of Freedom Flotilla passengers who were killed, wounded or detained and intends to publish them on its website.

Israel is just trying to justify its piracy[citation needed]
Just war criminals and pirates.[citation needed]

More slogan chanting from Mr Vacuous Crap.

Care to justify or backup the 'piracy' allegations? I've made it easy for you by posting up the legal position that demonstrates the legality of Israels actions - all you have to do is discredit any of the assumptions or any of the arguments that flow from the application of law to those assumptions. simples? Then you can promote yourself from gullible pontificating windbag to esteemed analyst. Obviously it would be unfair to present the likes of Fahel or Fred with such a challenge, but I'd expect you, Haystack, or you, Cynic, to at least have a go.

I can't really make it any easier for you.

Haystack

It turns out that I can make it easier for you after all.

This from a Turkish news website (The bold emphasis is mine):

"Professor Hasan Ki of Bahşehir University stated that Israel committed a war crime in its region with the assault on the Freedom Flotilla. He said international law required Israel to seize control of the aid ships and send their passengers back to their countries. The Israeli military, however, opened fire on unarmed activists. This is a war crime. This is also a crime against humanity. All Israeli state officials are now responsible for what has happened in terms of international criminal law, Ki added.

He seems to be confident that the boarding and siezing of control of the flotilla were all in accordance with international law (your so called 'piracy'). He does, however, have serious concerns as to whether or not Israeli fire was justified - which is a whole new question, but at least it moves the debate forward.

Here's the link to the full article. Unfortunately the page is full of inconsistent opinions, with each expert disagreeing with the one before. They are all critical of Israel - they just can't agree on what grounds.

See the Ibratnaak manzar of the life of Ariel Sharon 's Ex-Prime Minister of Israel . He has such a disease which prevented him to come out his bed. A rare picture which media has shown so far. The bitter reality of the life of a Zalim ruler in this century..Allah-hu-Akbar!! When Yasir Arafat was in Comma, he said some nasty words about him and suggests that give poison to Yasir Arafat for peace. Now ALLAH set him as example who cross his/her limits.
Ariel Sharon , have lots and lots of damage in Palestine ... And today he is in such a position (Please see picture). The media all over the world is quite, feeling shame to publish/show Sharon on any world news.
For your information, he is lying in coma since years, and no doctor is able to find the correct disease.
No life - No death, this is the result of killing thousands of innocent people in Palestine . What we do in this world, we have to taste, before we leave this on our heavenly abode as well.

This is what the whole World is watching the result of assault of innocent Palestinian in Palestine !!

Hey fahel

More from the same website: ISKO DUNYA MAIN B MIL RAHA HAI IBRAT NAAK ANJAAM...AUR INSHALLAH AKHRAT MAIN B ISKO JAB SAB MUSLIMANON KA AUR MASOOM LOGON K KHOON KA HISAB DENA PAREGA>>>TO US WAQT INSAAF HOGA ASAL MAIN>>>TAB BHAGAY GA JAHANNUM SE>>>LEKIN JESA KROGAY IS DUNYA MAIN>>WESA BHAROGAY AGLAY JAHAN MAIN... :-)

No idea what it means. I read it just as thoroughly as you read yours. And it's equally as incomprehensible to me.