Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Maritme law.
Worth a read.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Law/Legal+Issues+and+Rulings/Gaza_floti

PS.

I don't think that "Israel" should be wiped off the Map and considered the remark at the time to be very bad rhetoric with long term harmful effects

==============

The boats were subjected to an illegal attack in international waters.

Those on board seem to have little in the way of arms compared with the pirates who attacked them.

If I broke into an Israeli house, I am sure the majority of Israelis would attempt to defend their property.

The reasons for the Armada and the rockets and terrorism, is to draw world attention to the illegal acts of Israel, who at the moment are arrogantly disregarding the rights of the Palestinians, based on a mythical concept that "God gave them the land",

Both sides need to grow up and face the responsibilities to all the people of that area.

I hope that this confrontation does not lead to an expansion of the conflict.

Israel's judiciary response to the petitions. Note that the Israeli high court is genuinely independent of the government and has found against the government many times.

Please, anyone who still claims that Israel's actions were illegal, knock this document and its arguments down. It's a legal document, so try to stick to facts.


The State Attorney's Office earlier today (Tuesday), 1 June 2010, submitted, to the High Court of Justice, the State's response to two petitions regarding the Gaza flotilla. The response was submitted by State Attorney Moshe Lador and other senior officials. The main points of the reply are as follows:

1. The Gaza Strip is controlled by the Hamas terrorist organization, which has set as its goal, and has consistently and systematically worked towards its realization, to attack the citizens and residents of the State of Israel - mainly those residing in the cities and communities in the south of the country, in proximity to the Gaza Strip. Deliberate attacks on a country's civilian population are perpetrated mainly via rockets, and the Hamas terrorist organization's ability (as well as that of its parallel organizations), is based mainly on the infiltration of war materiel into the Gaza Strip by any means possible and by any channel at the organization's disposal.

2. One of the main routes by which weapons and ordnance have been infiltrated into the Gaza Strip up to now is tunnels dug under the border with Egypt into the area of the Strip. Against these, as it is known, the State of Israel has done its utmost to thwart their being used to transfer war materiel. In addition, as part of the struggle to block the smuggling of weapons, the State of Israel has imposed a naval blockade on the Gaza Strip. The blockade is not intended to harm residents of the Strip. It is designed to prevent direct and free access to the Gaza Strip, not via Israel, in order to thwart, minimize, block and hinder the Gaza Strip from becoming a giant arsenal for the terrorist organizations to use in deliberately targeting Israelis in the framework of murderous terrorist actions that have been perpetrated over the years. Free access to Gaza - were it to be allowed (and were it to become possible in the future) - would obviate any possibility whatsoever of preventing the realization of this unbearable scenario.

3. No state that wishes to survive could agree to put itself before such a reality. No rational state would knowingly close its eyes to such an outstanding strategic threat. Therefore, Israel decided not to remain indifferent to such a crude attempt to violate the naval blockade which was imposed in the framework of the security measures taken following Operation Cast Lead, and acted to interdict the flotilla, the true goal of which was "to break the blockade on the Gaza Strip" and to create a new and accessible route for the delivery of war materiel for terrorist purposes.

4. There is no doubt that if Israel had taken a nae approach regarding "clearing the sea route" towards the Gaza coast by the aforesaid flotilla, and if it had conceded on its determined enforcement of the naval blockade in this case, merely because the ships flew the "flag of peace", the State would have thereby allowed the creation of a new reality (which would have been impossible to halt), according to which any vessel, whatever its cargo (such as that of the Karine A, for example), would find its way - without oversight - to the coast of the Gaza terrorist authority, as long as it flew the "flag of peace" and on its decks were found the "spokespeople" of a "peace lobby" from somewhere in the world.

5. While the Gaza flotilla was publicly "marketed" as being for humanitarian purposes, the reality indicates a different goal. The organizers of the flotilla scorned Israel's efforts to prevent the vessels from reaching Gaza, via diplomatic dialogue, announcements in advance and declarations over the radio. The organizers of the flotilla similarly rejected Israel's offer to transfer the aid on board directly to Gaza via Israel, thereby attesting that their goal was to "break the blockade."

6. As is known, the violent "welcome" which the "peace activists" gave the IDF soldiers, who had been ordered to prevent the flotilla participants from violating the blockade in order to guard the State of Israel's most vital security interests, created a tangible danger to the soldiers who were compelled to defend themselves and take the necessary action to protect life and limb. The flotilla participants engaged in this severe violence despite their arrogance in calling themselves "peace activists." The lynching that they sought to perpetrate on IDF soldiers, which included - inter alia - attacks with knives, clubs iron bars, Molotov cocktails, the throwing of heavy objects and the throwing of a soldier from one of the decks, compelled the IDF soldiers to defend themselves and take the necessary action to protect life and limb. As a result, regrettably, nine flotilla participants were killed and people were injured, both flotilla participants and soldiers.

7. Thus may be seen the true, violent and provocative, nature of the flotilla, which bears no resemblance whatsoever to "humanitarian aid" to the Gaza Strip. Thus the claimants' veil of hypocrisy is lifted.

8. The IDF is a moral army and IDF soldiers are trained in the purity of arms and scrupulous upholding of human rights. However, the State of Israel and the security establishment will not neglect their duty to maintain the safety of citizens who have been under attack for many years by the terrorist organizations. These act continuously, diligently and deviously to build up vast stocks of war materiel - the hindering of which is sanctioned by international customary law - in order to deliberately shoot at Israeli communities.

The action was, therefore, legal:

The petition is without any factual or legal basis. Factually, the petition is riddled with crude and harsh distortions, baseless accusations and the tendentious defamation of the State, while using inflammatory language that ill befits this honorable Court. The foregoing alone justifies its outright dismissal.

Legally, the petition ignores central provisions of international law that permit the imposition of a naval blockade and the capture of vessels that are in violation, or are about to violate said blockade, and claims - without any basis in law - that these actions were carried out in the absence of authority. The State's actions were carried out according to law, both customary international law and the Entry into Israel Law. As for the petition's being directed at the detention of flotilla passengers who are not required for investigation regarding the events at issue, or for perpetrating severe violent offenses against IDF soldiers, there is full readiness to facilitate their immediate departure from the State of Israel. In any event, regarding the claim on the issue of detention under the Entry into Israel Law, there is an alternative remedy, in the form of judicial review of the orders under the Entry into Israel Law.

If Israel want Hamass to stop firing rockets into Israel then Israel has to change its policies. Stop building settlements illegally and remove the ones already built. Abide by UN resolutions - there are dozens of them. Stop the blockade of Gaza. At some point Israel will have to stop the blockade and arms, rockets will flood into Gaza. The question for Israel is why are Hamas firing rockets and not how to stop them. The policies of Israel are the cause. The militant action of Hamas and other Palestinian groups will not stop. It will carry on for generations until Israel negociate properly. Id anything the situation will get worse. Hamas are clearly bent on creating situations that will increasingly isilate Israel from the erst of the world.

Boycott Israeli Goods Campaign

Haystack - we get it. So far as you're concerned it's all Israel's fault; remove all settlements and lift the naval blockade, grant Gaza the freedom to arm itself with bigger and more powerful weapons and the problem's all solved - In your fantasy the rockets will then stop and Israel and Gaza will go down the pub for a pint together. And the best way to achieve this is for you to only buy tomatoes grown in Guernsey.

Meanwhile in the real world we're trying to move on to reasoned analysis and debate, and to gain an insight into where recent events are leading.

Your continued reposting of the same vacuous crap is pointless, boring and doesn't add anything to the debate.

I am more concerned at removing the land blockade. The flotilla was largely symbolic. I doubt that anyone expects Israel to lift the naval blockade. It is the blockade of the land crossings that does so much harm to the Gaza residents. It doesn't add anuthing to the debate when Israel just keeps building more illegal settlements on occupied land.

It is Israeli policies that are the root cause of the conflict. This is a conflict or war that Israel cannot win. The attitude of "if you hurt me then I will hurt you 100 times worse" is getting Israel nowhere and making Israel more isolated. I am not surprised that Gaza attacks Israel.

Many Palestinian citizens were injured on Wednesday when they tried to stop Israeli settlers backed by Israeli occupation forces (IOF) from burning their olive trees in two villages in Nablus district, local sources reported.

They said that Israeli settlers on Tuesday night and at dawn Wednesday burnt more than 200 dunums of farmland cultivated with fruitful olive trees and the villagers could not put off the fire due to the intensified presence of those settlers, who were supported by the IOF troops.

Israeli settlers almost daily attack Palestinian villages in Nablus district under the protection of the IOF soldiers targeting fruitful trees. They either burn or cut off those trees.

"Meanwhile in the real world we're trying to move on to reasoned analysis and debate, and to gain an insight into where recent events are leading."

No they are not. Israel is just trying to justify its piracy.

Israel is just trying to justify its piracy.

More slogan chanting from Mr Vacuous Crap.

Care to justify or backup the 'piracy' allegation? I've made it easy for you by posting up the legal position that demonstrates the legality of Israels actions - all you have to do is discredit any of the assumptions or any of the arguments that flow from the application of law to those assumptions. simples? Then you can promote yourself from gullible pontificating windbag to esteemed analyst. Obviously it would be unfair to present the likes of Fahel or Fred with such a challenge, but I'd expect you, Haystack, or you, Cynic, to at least have a go.

I can't really make it any easier for you.

Hays,

Don't wear your fingers out.

I agree with the majority of what you have written.

Israel is postponing what will eventually happen, ie, negotiate and they will have to pay for the restitution of the damage they have done by uprooting and destroying the property of the Palestinians.

(Similar to the Jewish claims against Germany, since 1945.)

Again, it may be reasonable for the Palestinian militants to call a "cease fire" for a 3 month period while attempts at meaningful negotiations take place.

Also, the Palestinians have to be realistic and drop "the wiping off the map Israel".

I think, the construction of the state in the manner it was done. was wrong, but is "fait accompli".

The decision of the Israeli courts are orrellevant in this. It is international law that matters, There are plenty of international lawyers who are on opposing sides regarding the legality of the action. The actual blockade is illegal and has been specified as such by the UN. Israel likes to quote the UN when it suits them. I have seen in several papers today, such as the Guardian for one, that the activists were beaten during interrogation by the commandos after the action was complete. Is this proportional? Just war criminals and pirates.

Arab Knesset member Hanin Zoughbi said that the Israeli navy started to fire at the passengers of the Turkish cruise ship Mavi Marmara before its commandos landed on the deck, denying Israels claims that its soldiers opened fire in self-defense.

Zoughbi told a news conference in Nazareth city on Tuesday that Israeli soldiers ignored its appeal for providing two of the wounded passengers with medical help and let them bleed to death.

She highlighted that despite the tough political life she is living in and her experience of the reality of the occupation, she did not expect that such a brutal attack could have happened, especially since the convoy was carrying humanitarian aid to the besieged Gaza people.

The lawmaker added that everyone aboard was expecting that the ships would only be intercepted and taken to Israeli ports and it did not come into their minds that Israel would use such military equipment and huge number of soldiers to attack them.

There were deaths within minutes. The aim was to create an atmosphere of terror. A person raised a white flag and there were enough indications that we did not want any confrontation, the lawmaker stressed.

For his part, lawyer Basim Mansour, who visited on Tuesday a number of Freedom Flotilla detainees, said that two women told him that the Israeli soldiers tied two of the passengers and threw them into the sea to die by drowning.

An Egyptian doctor, one of the participants in the convoy, also reported that the soldiers opened fire directly at the victims and refused to medically treat seriously-wounded cases leaving them to die.

Many Greek passengers, who were aboard Freedom Flotilla ships, confirmed on Tuesday after their release that the Israeli troops used live and rubber bullets, batons and stunt guns during their attack on the convoy.

Turkish activist Mutlu Teriyaki, who was aboard the ship having the name of Gaza, reported that he and his friends were able to see clearly Israeli troops firing randomly aboard Mavi Marmara ship.

In a related context, Dr. Ahmed Al-Rashidi, a professor of international law at the university of Cairo, called on the Palestinian government, the governments around the world, and human rights organizations to document the Israeli crime against the Freedom Flotilla convoy.

Dr. Rashidi also stated that Israel violated an important principle of the international humanitarian law related to the right of humanitarian assistance when it attacked the convoy, adding that articles 55 and 62 of the fourth Geneva convention stipulate that any occupying power must allow relief aid to reach the people under its occupation.

In a new development, the European campaign to end the siege said it managed to obtain the names of Freedom Flotilla passengers who were killed, wounded or detained and intends to publish them on its website.

Israel is just trying to justify its piracy[citation needed]
Just war criminals and pirates.[citation needed]

More slogan chanting from Mr Vacuous Crap.

Care to justify or backup the 'piracy' allegations? I've made it easy for you by posting up the legal position that demonstrates the legality of Israels actions - all you have to do is discredit any of the assumptions or any of the arguments that flow from the application of law to those assumptions. simples? Then you can promote yourself from gullible pontificating windbag to esteemed analyst. Obviously it would be unfair to present the likes of Fahel or Fred with such a challenge, but I'd expect you, Haystack, or you, Cynic, to at least have a go.

I can't really make it any easier for you.

Haystack

It turns out that I can make it easier for you after all.

This from a Turkish news website (The bold emphasis is mine):

"Professor Hasan Ki of Bahşehir University stated that Israel committed a war crime in its region with the assault on the Freedom Flotilla. He said international law required Israel to seize control of the aid ships and send their passengers back to their countries. The Israeli military, however, opened fire on unarmed activists. This is a war crime. This is also a crime against humanity. All Israeli state officials are now responsible for what has happened in terms of international criminal law, Ki added.

He seems to be confident that the boarding and siezing of control of the flotilla were all in accordance with international law (your so called 'piracy'). He does, however, have serious concerns as to whether or not Israeli fire was justified - which is a whole new question, but at least it moves the debate forward.

Here's the link to the full article. Unfortunately the page is full of inconsistent opinions, with each expert disagreeing with the one before. They are all critical of Israel - they just can't agree on what grounds.

See the Ibratnaak manzar of the life of Ariel Sharon 's Ex-Prime Minister of Israel . He has such a disease which prevented him to come out his bed. A rare picture which media has shown so far. The bitter reality of the life of a Zalim ruler in this century..Allah-hu-Akbar!! When Yasir Arafat was in Comma, he said some nasty words about him and suggests that give poison to Yasir Arafat for peace. Now ALLAH set him as example who cross his/her limits.
Ariel Sharon , have lots and lots of damage in Palestine ... And today he is in such a position (Please see picture). The media all over the world is quite, feeling shame to publish/show Sharon on any world news.
For your information, he is lying in coma since years, and no doctor is able to find the correct disease.
No life - No death, this is the result of killing thousands of innocent people in Palestine . What we do in this world, we have to taste, before we leave this on our heavenly abode as well.

This is what the whole World is watching the result of assault of innocent Palestinian in Palestine !!

Hey fahel

More from the same website: ISKO DUNYA MAIN B MIL RAHA HAI IBRAT NAAK ANJAAM...AUR INSHALLAH AKHRAT MAIN B ISKO JAB SAB MUSLIMANON KA AUR MASOOM LOGON K KHOON KA HISAB DENA PAREGA>>>TO US WAQT INSAAF HOGA ASAL MAIN>>>TAB BHAGAY GA JAHANNUM SE>>>LEKIN JESA KROGAY IS DUNYA MAIN>>WESA BHAROGAY AGLAY JAHAN MAIN... :-)

No idea what it means. I read it just as thoroughly as you read yours. And it's equally as incomprehensible to me.

Haystack, I think you've really lost the plot with this one. It is quite clear International law experts are divided on the legality of the Israeli course of action, whether that be the boarding itself or the self-defence measures taken. The IDF will have their own Rules of Engagement and although I have no idea as to the content, armed resposne against a mob where your own life is at risk will undoubtedly be permitted.

I really can't understand why you continue to post copies of articles contributed to by the very activists who have some connection with the activists. You don't have to have more than one grey cell to understand the propaganda and lies they contain. Video footage of the first stages of the boarding is freely available on the internet and there is no evidence whatsoever of the Israelis using small arms fire; although there is plenty of evidence to support the line that the so called passengers attacked the IDF soldiers. Although nor reported, there is a possibilty the Israeli Navy fired warning shots against ships of the Flotilla in an attempt to force them to stop. When that course of action obviously failed, the boarding was initiated.

It is also blindingly obvious that everything HamaS, activist groups do is to goad Israel into retalitory action and then reap the propaganda benefit. I doubt all of the 500 passangers onboard realised what they were getting themselves into and the way they are being used. I guess some are the 'Freds' and 'Haystacks' of this world - gullible idiots.

one thing is for sure
while hamas continue, you will never get a united 'palestine'

in the end it will be up to fatah to sort them out and bring them to heel

NEW YORK, (PIC)-- John Holmes, the UN under-secretary-general for humanitarian affairs, has denounced the Israeli attack on the Freedom Flotilla that was heading to break the Israeli siege on Gaza.

Holmes in a press statement on Tuesday said that regardless of the circumstances that led to the incident, in which dozens of solidarity activists on board that Flotilla were killed or injured, such a situation should not have occurred.

He said that the siege imposed on Gaza since 2007 was not acceptable or necessary ever since its imposition, adding that it led to the worsening of the living conditions of one and a half million Palestinians.

The UN official noted that the siege led to the spread of poverty, lack of food security, blocked reconstruction, increased the people's reliance on humanitarian aid, and wiped out the Strip's economy.

Holmes called for seizing the opportunity of that crisis to end the collective punishment on the Gaza people once and for all.

Here comes the next flotilla!

BRUSSELS, (PIC)-- The European campaign to end the Gaza siege announced Wednesday that it obtained the funding of the first three ships of the new aid convoy to the besieged Gaza Strip, which will be named "Freedom Flotilla 2.

There are extensive calls to launch a new convoy to Gaza involving many ships and carrying on board more aid and more peace activists than the current Freedom Flotilla, which was carrying 10, 000 tons of aid and hundreds of passengers from more than 40 countries around the world.

It started to receive hundreds of requests from different people and parties around the world asking for participating in and providing support for Freedom Flotilla 2, which will sail for Gaza in the next few weeks.

The committee added that Israels assault on the current convoy augmented the enthusiasm of the worlds free people to help in sending more convoys to Gaza.

There are preparations for organizing an aid convoy by land from Algeria to Gaza.

Reports on RT that the next flotilla will be accompanied by Turkish navy gunboats.

Turkey is, of course, part of NATO. If the Turkish Navy do accompany the next flotilla and a conflict ensues, Turkey are then entitled to invoke the NATO charter and things then get very ugly for all of Europe and the USA - NATO would have to chose between going to war against Israel or breaking up.

Boy are those diplomatic hotlines going to be burning right now.