Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

The instruction is a bit suggestive, there was no need for it.


VAT is just one of the taxes that could be modified/disgarded if we were not in the €U.

The list of things that could be accomplished if we made our own decisions are endless.

ie: We wouldn't have to ask the €U if we can please save our steel industry (climate change bullshit) We could just go ahead and do it.

haystacks, The comments that you post point to only one way that you are
voting, and that's to remain..

You're are the mirror image of the SNAKE OIL SALESMAN, cameron..He stated before the start of the 'reform' negotiations that if he didn't get the 'reforms' he wanted he wouldn't hesitate to recommend LEAVING!!!

He didn't get the 'reforms' he said he wanted but he's pathologiacly committed
to staying..

Just like him, your saying the opposite in the hope you can influence some
weak undecided with your underhand slimy posts.

I think he did get the reforms he wanted. He was never going to get much as the EU is pretty intransigent.

I want out because I regard the EU as ultimately doomed. I also do not want a federal United States of Europe. To control the members of the EU, create stability for the Euro and prevent crises like Greece defaulting, there has to be Fiscal control. That will involve central setting of budgets, central control of tax rates, Federal taxes. It will lead to very little for the governments of individual countries to do. It is an unstoppable train. The countries in the EU are far too different to be centrally governed and the problem will only get worse. The northern European countries have a very different work ethic from the south. Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal all prefer the sun to work.

I want out but I am realistic enough to think we will stay in. The things that Cameron did get will stop us being sucked further into the Federal experiment, but what will happen next time Labour are in power. I fear that they will give away those safeguards as they did our veto under Blair. Labour do want a Federal EU hoping it may become a socialist superstate.

Britain will be forced to join an EU ARMY unless we leave, says Armed Forces Minister

THE Minister in charge of Britain's military has become the first member of the Government to confirm that if the UK remains under Brussels control it will be forced to join an EU army.



By David Maddox

PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, May 29, 2016 | UPDATED: 08:54, Sun, May 29, 2016





Armed Forces Minister Penny Mordaunt made the warning following revelations in the Daily Express that the Lisbon Treaty obliges Britain to join the EU Army.

It also follows further shocking revelations that a plan to create it will be tabled the day after the Britain's EU referendum in a bid to keep the nightmare scenario hidden from British.

A policy paper drawn up by the European Union's foreign policy chief suggests the organisation could "step up" its contribution to security defence.


According to reports from Brussels the plans being prepared by Federica Mogherini are being kept secret until after the UK's referendum on EU membership on June 23.



The paper urges the EU to create defence structures using mechanisms set out in the 2009 Lisbon treaty.

The draft said: "The EU can step up its contribution to Europe's security and defence.

"Our external action must become more joined up across policy areas, institutions and member states. Greater unity of purpose is needed across the policy areas making up our external action."



More: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/673463/Britain-forced-EU-ARMY-leave-Armed-Forces-Minister

Haystack ,after reading your postings i have to say why don't you just admit to wanting to Remain (it's not a crime) ,your postings remind me of some of the low grade rampings on ADVFN . You won't influence a single person on here and what's more there are only a few of us arguing about this anyway.
Very strange for someone who says they want out.

The FT poll of polls on 25 May has Remain on 46% and Leave on 41%. However, still early days, and too soon to call the final outcome.
Within the next 10 days or so the anti migrant bounce needs to show a 6 point Leave lead, especially after the furious attack on Cameron, if migration is to be the seen as the primary concern of the voters.

Expect a focus on the economy in the last 10 days.

A possible model for trade after Brexit could be Anglo Irish trade. Here free trade works well but there is also free movement. The Irish in the UK have a vote in our general elections and now even the EU vote. Historical Irish migrants have been seen as economically beneficial and have been well integrated into UK society.
However I doubt other EU countries will be happy if a similar trade agreement can be set up solely with Germany and France. In fact Germany has already said any trade agreement they negotiate with the UK will be via the EU..
The Tory side of Brexit have under estimated the disadvantage those that try to disrupt the status quo have.
They need to clearly set out their way of ensuring we have access to the European markets. And it needs to be better than the one we have.
The fact they can't .....says it all.

Who signed the Lisbon Treaty? Labour did. The Conservatives opposed it and was planning to offer a referendum but Labour had already given away our veto so a referendum was out of the question.

The Lisbon treaty was the descendant of the Maastricht Treaty. Ireland voted against it, France was about to vote against it. Labour offered us a vote on the Treaty but avoided it because the treaty was cancelled. The Treaty was redrawn as the Lisbon Treaty and was virtually the same word for word. In the meantime Ireland voted again saying yes this time. Labour reneged on the promised vote by saying it was not the Treaty that they offered the vote on (despite it being the same wording). The UK signed the Treaty and Labour gave away our veto on new laws at the same time.

That is why we are in this mess now and we have to accept EU rules. Given another chance Labour will give away more of our sovereignty.

And if Dave has his way, he'll give away the lot...no half measures.

What was Heath doing then?


Britain Joins the European Economic Community

The Treaty was signed by Edward Heath, the British Prime Minister, in Brussels on 22 January 1972. The European Communities Bill was then introduced in the House of Commons to give parliamentary assent to Britain's membership of the EEC. Although the bill itself consisted of only 12 clauses (accepting all previous EEC regulations, the Treaty of Rome, and the terms of entry), it was subject to some 300 hours of debate before becoming law.

Britain's membership of what was then primarily an economic union came into effect on 1 January 1973. Since then the Community has developed into a much broader entity, the European Union, which was formally created by the Treaty of Maastricht of 1992. The terms of Britain's agreement to the Treaty received parliamentary approval in the European Communities (Amendment) Act of 1993, and the Union came into force in November 1993.

That's history now

I've said on a number of occasion's that these so called 'reforms' have
to be ratified by the commissioners and the judges...

Just wait until after the referendum, and you will see how they get round
this 'little' problem.

Brits "Appalled, Disgusted" At Brexit Postal Ballot 'Fraud'

Tyler Durden's picture
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/30/2016 14:00 -0400





It seems that the establishment is leaving nothing to chance. With 'Project Fear' now complete - as politicians enter the dark period of propaganda prior to the vote - the manipulation will continue until the status quo is maintained... for now, the polls suggest the establishment is going to have do more...






More: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-30/brits-appalled-disgusted-brexit-postal-ballot-fraud

it has been withdrawn
"just chance placing" says bristol ( ithink) from where it emanated
hahaha!

GOVE was a fascinating orange on tv just now .... no idea what he actually said

Gov,


Was it, "Why did I pick this side?".

For a photograph, it is remarkably life like.

,

Labour voters in the dark about party's stance on Brexit, research says
as has been pointed out here several times!

Wouldn't it be a surprise if Jeremy suddenly discovered his long lost principles and came down in favour of out?

Corbyn believes in democracy and allowing the labour party members to make their own decisions, not like the con artist party puppets having their strings pulled by party outsiders wealthy donors.

(Who is financing Nigel's little outfit?)