Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Cynic - that's bollocks. Orthodox converts are treated in exactly the same way as all other orthodox jews.

clearly "far from impossible" was true then! ..... anyway, in my view, most of most religions are a load of mumbo jumbo, though the basic tenets may well make good and sound philosophy for life ..... pretty much rubbish = kosher/halal rules which were basic health rules and very sensible at the time; carrying jewishness through the mother's line was eminently sensible tribal law - one generally knows who the mother is, if not the father

Cynic - so you are basically saying being Jewish is defined ethnically by being able trace ancestors back to certain groups. While true for most people who would call themselves Jewish I still argue that it is not necessary for someone to be Jewish. It is a matter of common use of language. If it looks like duck, walks like a duck and swims like duck it is a duck. Somebody who follows Judaism, go to synagogue, follows the Sabbath, etc. is in their own eyes and the eyes of almost everybody else Jewish. I would like to know what else you would call them. They may not be ethically Jewish if you want to use such a term but they are still Jewish.

PS I have to agree on the religions being mumbo jumbo point.

My understanding of it, fwiw, is that being Jewish refers to ethnicity (in this case, from the near-East), whereas Judaism refers to a religion.

Obviously the definitions of ethnicity and religion are completely different, so Cynic is right in his interpretation. In the same way, you get Latin-Americans who are Catholics, but being a Catholic obviously doesn't make you a Latin-American.

The fly in the ointment seems to come in the form of a relatively new word called ethno-religious which suggests that being one (eg a Judaist) automatically implies being the other (a Jew). I think that Sikhism is another example of an ethno-religious group. In that case, Isaacs and Gausie are also correct.

I'll get off the fence now.

:o)

Isaacs,

Followers of the Rabbi?

================

Often, when I was trying to be serious and was trying to construct some thoughts in writing, I used to refer to all the dictionaries that I had available; in order to try to make sure that the words that I was going to used, would be understood in the way that I intended.

When I started of the thread, I was bemused by the various understanding of meanings of the following words Culture, Race, Nation, Nationality, Patriotism, Patriotic, Ethnic, Ethnicity, Religion, Jewish, Zionist, etc.

I struggled with that, and then consider for a little, the effect which the various genetic mapping information would have on some of the underlying meanings and emotions of the commonly used words.

Possibly, some of the confusion in the Middle East, is due to the wandering and variable meanings of the words being used.

In reference to what has been posted recently on this thread, but I have not included all the meanings implied by the use of the various words;

Excerpted from Oxford Talking Dictionary
Copyright 1998 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.


Judaism

1 The profession or practice of the Jewish religion; the religion of the Jews, with a belief in one God and a basis in Mosaic and rabbinical teachings.
2 Adoption of Jewish practices on the part of Christians; a practice or cast of thought associated with Jews.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jewish

Of, belonging to, or characteristic of, the Jews; of or relating to Judaism; Israelitish, Hebrew. M16.

---------------------------------------------------------
Jew

1. a son of the Hebrew patriarch Jacob, the tribe descended from Judah.] 1
2. A person of Hebrew descent; a person whose religion is Judaism; Hist. an Israelite. ME.

---------------------------------------------------------

Zionism /

A movement for (orig.) the reestablishment of a Jewish nation in Palestine, and (since 1948) the development of the State of Israel

---------------------------------------------------------

Patriotic

1 Of or belonging to one's country.
2 Of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a patriot; devoted to the well-being or interests of one's country.

====

I leave race, culture etc, to others.




PS.

I, also, looked up the meaning of Welsh and became more confused by my ancestors, and realised I am just a Welshman, when Wales are playing England at Rugby.

The question of what determines Jewish identity in the State of Israel was given new impetus when, in the 1950s, David Ben-Gurion requested opinions on mihu Yehudi ("who is a Jew") from Jewish religious authorities and intellectuals worldwide in order to settle citizenship questions. This is still not settled, and occasionally resurfaces in Israeli politics .


In other words , if they still cant figure it out after 50 years , this could be a long thread :)))

hilary - i totally agree with you ..... let the talmudic scholars continue to argue their really unimportant arcane issues in their cloistered yeshivot (i guess they can just about tolerate a word associated with catholic monasteries!) instead of getting on with life in the real world .... little different from the medieval philosophers arguing about angels on the point of a needle etc

But why are they in Israel now?

because if they had turned right instead of left, they would have been swimming in oil in saudi!

Ovey, that Moses. :-)

it wasn't him; it was that dumbarse with a square nose (aaron) as moishe was dead by then

Muhamad Ali Nurani, Deputy Secretary General of the Society to Defend Palestinian People, said that an Iranian aid ship will be setting sail today to the besieged Gaza Strip.

The ship will carry as well as humanitarian aid a number of MPs, doctors, students and sports-persons.

Al-Alam satellite channel quoted Nurani as saying that a land convoy will make its way to Khoramshahr where aid will be loaded on the ship and the ship will sail through Boshahar and Bandar Abbas, then Oman, Yemen and Egypt to Gaza.

He added that the aid carried on the ship includes food, medical equipment and construction materials.

Good old pacifist Turkey. Nothing like dropping a few bombs on the Kurds. Hypocrycy springs to mind

http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?a=mmK2JeMWIoJYJmL&s=chISL7OKJiJNJVPHJuH&m=8hIKI1PHLkLYKfI

Iran another country known for its human rights.

Where are the human rights groups?
Source: http://iranhr.net/
REVISED: FIVE PEOPLE WERE HANGED IN IRAN TODAY 8. JUNE - 18 EXECUTIONS IN TWO DAYS
8 June 2010

13 PEOPLE WERE HANGED IN TEHRAN- ONE HANGED IN ISFAHAN
8 June 2010

Iran Human Rights, June 8: According to reliable sources 13 people were hanged in the prison of Ghezel Hesar Monday morning June 7.
7th June, 2010 - 13 hanged in Ghezel Hesar prison (Teheran)
4th June, 2010 - 1 hanged om Mianeh, northwesteren Iranian province of East Azerbaijan


URGENT: 26 PEOPLE AT IMMINENT DANGER OF EXECUTION IN TEHRAN- THEY CAN BE EXECUTED WITHIN 48 HOURS
6 June 2010

Iran Human Rights, June 6: According to reports from Iran, 26 people have been transferred to the quarantine section of Ghesel hesar prison, west of Tehran, and are being prepared for execution. They can be executed within the next 48 hours.
Two people were hanged in northeastern Iranian town of Shirvan
31 May 2010

Iran Human Rights, May 31: Two people were hanged in the prison of Shirvan (north Khorasan province northeastern Iran) reported the state run Iranian news agency ISCA news today.
Yazd and Isfahan
4 June 2010 Iran Human Rights, June 3: One man was hanged in Isfahan, central Iran, early today Thursday June 3.

An Afghan citizen was hanged in central Iran this morning
29 May 2010

Iran Human Rights, May 29: One man was hanged in the prison of Isfahan (central Iran) early this morning.
One man was hanged in southeastern Iran- Five hanged in northern Iran according to unofficial sources
29 May 2010

Iran Human Rights, May 28: One man was hanged in the southeast Iranian town of Zahedan according to the official Iranian sources.
Another execution in the southwest Iranian town of Ahwaz
25 May 2010

Iran Human Rights, May 25: Few days after public execution of a man in Ahwaz, another man was hanged in this city Sunday noon.
Abdolhamid Rigi, brother of the former leader of Jondollah, was hanged today
24 May 2010

Iran Human Rights, May 24: Abdolhamid Rigi, brother of Abdolmalek Rigi the imprisoned leader of Jondollah, was hanged in Zahedan (south-east Iran) early today.


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The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg

The news item did not say that Iran was sending a ship! It said an Iranian ship was being sent by the Society to Defend Palestinian People.

probably includes missiles, ammo, ak47s and a few dead and rotting pigs for good measure

the puppeteers really are having some of the best (pork)belly-laughs they've had in years

So Iran has a lousy humanitarian history just as Israel has.

Neither of the records justify what has or is happening.

Cynic,

I thought this thread was below your interest.

Made a mistake, probably above it.

what or even if you think is a mystery to many