Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Hays and Cynic,

I know you don't like socialism, but I have never been sure what is meant by it, where as Conservatism means to me personal "greed".

Was saving the "city" and the hides of the "bankers" and other "wheelers and dealers" out of tax payers' money socialism?

Is subsidising middle income hoped for tory party voters to have mortgages on properties up to £600,000 at the expense of tax payers a form conservatism, state intervention, or socialism?

Especially, while at the same time "government" is denying poorer members in society "decent" housing, or an expectancy of such?

Would that be considered good "conservatism", or poor "socialism"?

Is proposed financing of HS2 out of public funds by the government a socialist intervention rather than leaving it up to the market?

(Sorry the money is being filtered back into private hands.)

Is funding the private contractors in the NHS through public funds socialism?

Is funding R&D in Universities socialism or capitalism?

Is the government tax pot for bailing out the failures of capitalism?

I could add more.

To me, the spouted philosophy of Cameron and his "partners" is fraudulent.

In a modern civilised society it is reasonable to have the intertwining of state and the private concerns. The balance is difficult, but Cameron is dividing the country by lying, for his own and party's personal gains.

It is becoming more and more obvious and I think he will be rejected in 2015.

MAX and George said..............

MaxK - 03 Oct 2013 08:51 - 30431 of 30438

Of the million or so (formally disabled) people who have suddenly been deemed capable of picking up their beds and walking (atos).

Where have they gone?.......................................ends

Max, after the work capability assesment with ATOS they are given a yes or no verdict on wether they are fit to work.

They are then in four streams.

a, unfit to work , placed in support groupget benefit, reviewed usually every year........placed in stats.

b1, fit to work but not ready to go straight into work need up to a year to get ready for work......... WRAG Group. continue getting benefits on income grounds............taken out of stats.

b2,Found fit to work but not ready to go straight into work need up to a year to get ready for work......... WRAG Group dont get benefits have a small company private pension or partner working....................taken out of stats.

c, Found fit to work but have appealed against ATOS decision, dont get benefits but may have them re-instated if decision goes their way. .................taken out of stats.

d, Found fit to work immediatly placed on Jobseekers allowance dont get benefit if they have used up their 6 months benefit entittlement from previous work, recieve NI Contributions only................. taken out of stats.

SO as you can see out of the four streams the 1 million you refer to as having walked away fit with their beds, havent walked away at all, they have just been removed from the unemployment statistics temporarily awaiting a further decision or action.

Some would say that this is the government cooking the books, creative accounting for the benefit of political gain. Tory political gain.

As i said yesterday evening the poster haystack hasnt a clue as to how the system works, best if you just ignore the sad sick man.

No.

Heath and Enoch had and showed a "sense" of common decency which Thatcher didn't and Cameron doesn't have.

Disagreed with many of the former's policies, but has some respect for them.

Latest opinion poll. ohhh dear the Tories were expecting a bounce on the back of their nasty welfare proposals sadly it hasnt happened the British Public have seen straight through them.

electionista ‏@electionista 4h
UK - YouGov/Sun poll: CON 34%, LAB 40%, LDEM 9%, UKIP 10%

Remember anything over 38% gives labour an overal majority.

It has dropped from Labour's conference high and is heading lower.

Thanks for the explanation gf.

So its not so much picking up their beds and walking, as to moving the beds next door to an unmarked building..


Hence the welfare bill still going up.

Nice to hear the con party is helping the unemployed under 25s to get into work which isn't there.

Mind the unemployed can ring up mum and dad's friends and get a handout, or perhaps nip over back wall and borrow the silver.

Max.

It is called "sleight" of "hand" by con merchants.

Max.... spot on.

I work on a voluntary basis giving out advise for this organisation below plus I used to be a civil servant for the DHSS/ HMRC in the old days, nothing changes really its just re-packed with a different wrapper but the way the statistics are collated certainly changes under Tory admin.

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

ignoring all the usual blather ......

dossing and begging on the streets may not enhance the elegance of a city, but it is neither new nor remotely restricted to large cities in uk ...... leaving aside the obvious candidates like india and other countries in that region, you only need to go to hamburg and paris - both of which i happen to know - and any other large city and you'll find exactly the same.

there was an interesting (long) snippet on the radio a couple of mornings back re Big Issue and how its aim has always been to get people to help themselves rather than have their hands out for freebies and benefits ..... having created a brilliant formula with its launch, they are now trying to determine how to re-invent themselves to ensure the original concept is maintained

Cynic its only blather because you dont understand it and dont want to understand it.

Come into the modern world.

Just placed this warning on the chart thread. it may not happen but then again.....

Winding down my folio just 3 stocks left and they wont be their for much longer.

17th of october deadline for US debt ceiling.

If no agreement reached the market will collapse, dont take the risk or you could lose a great deal or lose everything.

Get out in a orderly and profitable fashion dont wait for the stampede.

Cynic.

Hays seems to advocate leaving the beggars on the street, do you with experience of the back streets of various streets wish to have the same in the UK?

Or, is it, as Hays seems to think let it be "up to market forces"?

it's not that i don't understand, but i really cannot be bothered with all the partisan blather and attempted political scoring ..... i'm perfectly capable of making up my own (now there's a surprise for you!) about issues various

I threw a few questions into the ring in post 330449

Nobody has help me correct my mistaken thoughts.

8-(

no, and indeed for that reason i choose to support st mungo's, though there are a number of other worthy and similarly focussed charities ..... however, i am not in favour either of the stupid open door policy that has yet to be reversed, so i also have little or no sympathy for some of the "ethnic minorities" who choose to come to uk as it looks a juicy soft option for hand-outs

Fair enough but Ive seen you trying to score politicaly.

Ps, what do you think about my warning re- to US debt ceiling talks. going to chance it????

Could be very dangerous. ive spent a lot of time on US sites and it looks like gridlock on political front.

Far worse than 2008 most say if no agreement.

i'll ignore 30449 until such a time as you edit out its heavy partisan bias

=========

sticky - not sure ..... i'm afraid the attitude of american politicians are a disgrace, and whatever they claim, i'm sure the founding fathers would be horrified that the good of the country is not put first

Cynic,

Ducking again.

Even if fleeing equivalent to the Gulags or "concentration camps".

Forgot the some R/Wingers real tories would like to introduce simple "health camps" for the "unemployable".

--------

GF.

Could go short.

whatever you say fred ..... you may want to try to goad me into saying something even more stupid than usual, but not a chance