Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Haystack

The wish of the people was to ban it .

I see you have not answered the reason's i gave why it should be banned.

I see no reason to ban it. It is part of the traditional culture of the country. Plenty of people approve of it. The people who want to ban hunting are mainly city dwellers who don't want badger culls, want natural childbirth, ban nuclear weapons, stop fracking etc.

It is academic at present, partly as hunting still continues on private land and local law turns a blind eye. You can bet that with a good majority the law will be repealed.

Haystack

Badger culls have not been proved to work .

"It is part of the traditional culture of the country " so you would approve of bear baiting , dog fighting and cock fighting and badger baiting then ?

You forgot to mention pheasant shooting in that list Haystack! I have lived in both the city and the country. Wherever I live I find fox hunting completely barbaric. There is something grotesque about a pack of riders encouraging a pack of hounds to chase a fox and then enjoying the spectacle of watching it getting ripped to shreds.

Everywhere I have lived in a city foxes are a pest. They raid bins in the area and I have had soiled nappies left on the lawn. They often have bad infections of mange, which could pass to my dogs. They are just as much of a pest in the country.

I am afraid it is just a matter of personal opinion. Badger culling has yet to be proved good or bad and needs good trials. Pheasant shooting is fine and that includes deer, rabbits, hares and various game birds. I don't expect you to agree with me. I am quite happy for you to be opposed to hunting, but it will continue for many years to come.

There are tons of 'ins and outs' and 'pros and cons' about fox hunting:

The 'barbaric and negative aspects' to fox hunting comprise various elements, e.g.

Hunting the fox relentlessly until it ends up in a state of collapse.
Dogs pulling it to pieces after they've caught it.
Letting children watch this kind of stuff.
Letting children/people watch an animal being bloodily and noisily killed by dogs.
Watching celebratory rituals carried out by the Master of Hounds, such as 'blooding'.

The 'hunting scene', being land owners, horse owners, hedge and fence jumpers comprises lots of extremely affluent and often very influential people. Just like 'Births, Marriages and Deaths', it does allow them an excuse for a 'get together'. It also keeps lots of country people (ie. those who don't like living in towns and cities) in a job in all of the supporting services.

The fox, when caught and killed by a pack of hunting dogs, dies just about absolutely instantly = humanely.
A fox, albeit a mammal, is considered to be vermin.

I'm sorta pro-pugilistics and sorta pro-hunting, I suppose and I do recognise that mankind is a kinda barbaric species.

However, I am also an objectively minded kinda guy and I reckon I can see lots of the points of view from both sides.

I guess I'm 'live and let live' about it - except for vermin. :-)

Good post ExecLine. I try to be objective about the way humans treat animals, but I find it very difficult.

I have the picture of Hays being chased by a pack of foxes and shouting "I am enjoying this".








Interesting week to come.

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Foxes being chased until caught is pretty much an analogy of the animal kingdom. People do not rise up in complaint when hyenas chase a wilderbeast and tear it apart or a pack of lions chasing an animal until exhausted. Dogs chasing foxes is the same except the foxes are pests and regarded as vermin by farmers.

The wealthy hobby argument is nonsense. Many 'hunts' are just organised by farmers with local people. There are a few famous wealthy hunts as well. I see it mainly about townies being opposed to things they know nothing about and the chance for a bit of class warfare.

I am indifferent to the cruel aspects of hunts. Certainly hunting pheasants, rabbits, hares, deer are not cruel as death is instantaneous. In which case what is the argument against it?

foxes are unquestionable a pest, even in towns, so how do you guys propose they should be controlled? ...... i'm not necessarily promoting foxhunting with dogs, but assuredly don't support the anti-ranters either

Foxes are a pest in the country. You could say that shooting is better. The problem is that no one is going to take the trouble to go out and do the shooting. Traps are more cruel even that hunting. Poison is not possible due to killing other wildlife and the same goes for traps and snares. Hunting is the only realistic method. That is why some forms of fox hunting is still allowed even with dogs as long as the fox is shot at the end. Of course the man with the gun is often a bit slow in catching up and the dogs get a bit enthusiastic. That's the grey area where hunting still continues almost unchanged by the law.

hunting with dogs has long been the traditional method of control, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily the best or most effective ..... i suppose shooting works, just as it does for rabbits and pigeons and the like, though is winging a fox and letting it die a slow and lingering death any more humane than hunting with dogs - except it isn't witnessed by joe public ..... how do you control urban foxes which are probably an even greater pest?

You could say rabbit's are a pest for farmers, and foxes kill rabbit's for food . Foxes in the city eat the fast food left behind by clubber's, ect. so the rat's can't eat it. maybe they kill rat's i don't know.

Animals in general hunt other animals for food.

The individuals who hunt foxes do so for simple sadistic, gleeful pleasure from torturing and killing another animal.

They have found something that they feel superior to.

Fox hunting does little to reduce the number of marauding foxes but does satisfy the whims and basic needs of hunts.

If you don't want foxes in town, store your food appropriately and also dispose of waste food and materially appropriately.

Also, trapping can be used and the vermin can be disposed of humanely.

That applies to nappies, but I would have thought Hays should be out of them by now.

Foxes make no impact on rats. There is plenty of waste food for both to eat. Where I lived previously in London, I saw a rat run across the front garden. I bought a couple of rat traps. They are similar to mouse traps but bigger, more powerful and heavier. I set the traps with peanut butter, which is favourite for mice and rats. Over 5 days, I caught 13 large rats, all trapped with the spring bar on their necks. The problem was not going to stop like that so I called the council. A guy came and found a wide crack leading down to the sewer. He put very strong poison down the hole with a syringe in large quantities. The problem stopped. All this was happening with a large population of foxes in the area. In fact we had a family of them living at the bottom of the next house's wild garden. Foxes are a pest no matter where they are. A similar pest seems to be badgers.

The individuals who hunt foxes do so for simple sadistic, gleeful pleasure from torturing and killing another animal ....They have found something that they feel superior to .... Fox hunting does little to reduce the number of marauding foxes but does satisfy the whims and basic needs of hunts.
you have empiric evidence to support that statement i take it, or is it just your jaundiced classist view again?

trapping implies bait and/or poison, and again its effectivenesss is not supported by evidence - unless you have some that no one else knows about

That applies to nappies, but I would have thought Hays should be out of them by now.
and that is just a pathetic and childish comment! .... even the daily mail can do better

hays - what evidence do you have that badgers are a pest? ..... that they should be culled rather than a bovine vaccine developed and administered to prevent the spread of bovine tb seems to be pretty debatable

FFS, trust Haystack to start a bloody war!

The point I was making (post 30525) ..... I am certain that IF (massive if at moment) the Conservatives were to win with a clear majority, repealing the hunting ban would not be an immediate priority. Agreed? Next!

It is a scientific decision. I am convinced by the evidence that I have seen to think that testing culling in a controlled environment is worthwhile. Badgers are very attractive and this is always an important factor in their support. Baby seals etc evoke that same ooos and aaas but need culling also. If people were presented with an ugly animal that needed culling such as malaria fleas then there would be less fuss. We don,'t mind eating cows, but dogs are a step too far. It is a cultural thing. It may be that badgers would appear to be ugly to some population and they would be pleased to cull them.

I am sure repealing the hunting act would not be a priority, but hopefully they would get around to it at least in their second term. There are are far more pressing problems such as more austerity.